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WoW Alliance vs. Horde

Overall, the demographic differences between Horde and Alliance characters are minimal. There are no gender differences. Male and female players are equally represented on both sides. There is a statistically significant, but substantively trivial, age difference. Players who prefer Horde characters (M = 27.5, SD = 8.0) tend to be slightly younger than players who prefer Alliance characters (M = 28.7, SD = 8.6).

Players who prefer the Horde score significantly higher on the Advancement, Competition, and Mechanics motivations than players who prefer the Alliance. In other words, players who prefer the Horde tend to be more achievement-driven, more likely to enjoy provoking and challenging each other, and more likely to be min-maxers. On the other hand, players who prefer the Alliance tend to score higher on the Role-Playing and Customization motivations than those players who prefer the Horde.

Click here for an overview of the motivations framework.


How much does human skew that data? A lot of people will (probably) prefer RP and customisation in an avatar that is human or close to it.
Alliance does have the four races closest to human - this would affect the spread of all the social/RP factors fairly significantly (IMHO)

If its not too much hassle could you do the data w/o human?

Posted by: Tony on August 1, 2005 4:37 AM

How can something be "significant", yet also be "trivial"? That standard deviation of ~ 8 makes differences in the mean of ~ 1 difficult to interpret. I think you what you meant to say is that the survey showed no statistically age difference between alliance and horde.

Language is everything. Particularly when interpreting statistical data :)

Posted by: joey on August 1, 2005 5:53 AM

note to self: proof read more carefully!

statistically important*

Posted by: joey on August 1, 2005 5:55 AM

I'm not so sure that "looking human" is nearly as important as "looking good" or "looking cool" or "having a cool history". I like the Orcs because of their honor, the Tauren because of their American Indian ties, the Night Elves because of their druidic background and awesome music in their starting location (plus, their druid-cat-form doesn't have horns!), the humans just because, and the dwarves as hunters. :) I find the undead creepy and mean, trolls to be ugly and gangly, and gnomes to be somewhat useless... Not that I wouldn't play them, but that my preference ranks them like this. I don't think human vs. non-human really even gets into it. Most people in a fantasy setting don't want to play "just a human" unless there's some good advantages to it.

Posted by: Donner on August 1, 2005 9:57 AM

Interesting. I play undead because I like the variety of appearances I can choose from. I actually find the art to be more pleasing and robust than the others. I also find their backstory to be sympathetic in a sort of pitiful kind of way, which lends itself to fun RP'ing. And, I'm of the group surveyed who does not enjoy PvP or provoking other players.

Posted by: josho on August 1, 2005 11:06 AM

I started as alliance mainly because I wanted to play the paladin class and because I thought the horde character artwork sucked. After several months of playing, however, I've often considered "rolling horde" in the hopes of finding a more skilled player base on the other side.

In the new Battlegrounds, it's more or less common knowledge that the average horde player is more skilled than the average alliance player, for whatever reason. I also get the impression that the alliance has more casual, inexperienced players that make up a significant portion of the human / nightelf population simply because they look normal, which may skew the numbers a bit.

Certain classes also are available to specific races, so someone's desire to play a specific class (i.e. paladin, shaman) may contribute to their faction decision.

Posted by: SiG on August 1, 2005 12:35 PM

To Joey and others who were confused by the wording - I was using shorthand (been writing too many APA papers lately). "Significant" is typically reserved to mean "statistically significant".

I have reworded the phrase. A difference can be statistically significant but still substantively trivial.

To Tony - It's not the humans who like role-playing the most. It's the Gnomes and Trolls. See the page on race data.

Posted by: Nick Yee on August 1, 2005 1:43 PM

Well I'm glad you wrote that it's not humans who RP the most. I wanted to point out that if you're RPing for immersion, escapism, and the like, you want it to be the LEAST like RL, not the most like RL. I never ever intend to RP a human. Why be human in the game when humans all over the world are showing me just how imperfect the human race is?

Posted by: Holly on August 1, 2005 4:20 PM

Holly- RP'ing a human can be just as fun as RP'ing any other available race, it's all preference based. Just because "actual" humans are an imperfect race doesn't honestly mean jack about the humans ingame... I have a rogue and a mage who are both human. I can RP with them in so many different ways you wouldn't know it was the same person playing them. And have you ever RP'd a human in love with another race? that can be quite interesting. For you to say that RP'rs want it to be LEAST like RL if YOUR opinion, not all RP'rs, please dont make up my mind for me =)

Posted by: Thayet on August 2, 2005 7:45 PM

Come on Thayet, why did you need a '=)' at the end of that? You OBVIOUSLY are being irritable and angry, CAPITALIZING words for emphasis and to give YOU a TONE. The =) is just irritating and obviously out of place - if you were going to give a genuine smile, would it be after you give a command in a sentence with an argumentative tone and a sarcastic closing.

Posted by: Ben on August 6, 2005 6:55 PM

Interesting about the gender breakdown. My wife was surprised when I said that most female characters are very likely played my male players. I'd be interested to know why male players would choose female characters. (My wife plays a female paladin BTW.)

Posted by: Charles on August 8, 2005 2:30 PM

Oops - just found the link below about gender-bending, with comments. Fascinating...

Posted by: Charles on August 8, 2005 6:57 PM

I chose horde over alliance because of the races that each had. I am a heavy rp'er and I actually find the "monster" races far easier to roleplay because the more human the race is, the more it just sounds like I'm ... talking. The monster races have the abilty to discuss eating human flesh at insane length, and also the fun of some unified language, like the Jamaicain (sp?) tongue of the troll for instance. The large overbalance in population favouring alliance also, I find, tends to give a much less unified group, as the number of idiots (read: people who use acronyms and L33t speech on a roleplaying server) goes up (so does the number of good players, but they are less vocal).

Posted by: Lord Disco on August 11, 2005 10:20 AM

My appologies, I should clarify something in the above post before I start an arguement: By my definition of idiot, I meant those that do it in yells and public says, not those that do it in private tells. Sorry.

Posted by: Lord Disco on August 11, 2005 10:23 AM

I played alliance only because I love gnomes (I was a dwarf) but I do agree that horde were about a 100 times more organized than us at any instance, or azuregos or kazzak. We'd bring 2 raid parties of 40 and 20 and they'd have 40 to get loot, and 60 more to defend.

Posted by: xargon on August 14, 2005 7:32 PM

I have noticed one big difference... alliance players are ganking people a lot more than horde. Especially paladins, which is very funny :P. I could name zounds of idiot corpse-camping paladins from my server... and it seems female night elf rogues are almost always honorless gankers... i love dueling and 1vs1 pvp but alliance are ruining my fun all the time :/. Damn i hate those honorless bastards who cant match horde players in one-on-one combat... :R

Posted by: Rabbit on August 22, 2005 12:31 PM

I play Horde for the fun aspect of being undead/orc/tauren or even a troll.

I can talk about "Losing my arm in Stratholme" on my main. Or flirt with the undead ladies on my orc. Or even make potions on my troll.(everyone calls him a hippy)
My tauren loves everyone.

Plus Horde players are more than likely to help someone out than the Alliance side.

Atleast that is what Ive experienced.

Posted by: Darowen on September 24, 2005 12:29 AM

That's funny that Alliance scores higher in RP because on my server, and in every other mmorpg I've played, serious RP was more prevalent on the evil or horde side than on the "good guys" side. Good guy RP tends to run RP-lite.

Posted by: Defafnyr on September 27, 2005 8:52 AM

Charles - Gender Bending - I'm male and exclusively play female toons. While some might raise an eyebrow at that and question sexuality or what-not, allow me to ask the guys who are playing male toons one question....

If your going to stare at an ass for hours on end, animated or not, which would you really rather look at...a dude's ass or a nice pert female ass?

Posted by: Jay on September 27, 2005 6:07 PM

Ha! That's so funny though, to think everyone is complaining that all the Bnet kiddies are in alliance playing chick Night-elves!!! It's actually the other way around! And I've seen it myself! I play on Earthen Ring, alliance all the way and it's very mature! I recently decided to level my level 30 Shaman and I hated it! People are so immature, every single Pick up group I joined was filled with l33t speakers, or lazy typers (ppl dat speak lik dis. u no wat i mean?)! Don't get me wrong, I was a 25 shaman, reached level 30, and I got sick of it.

Posted by: John on October 4, 2005 8:41 AM

Haha. I'm glad i found this place. I've noticed that alliance tends to be the younger ones. That's why everyone on the horde says that almost all the alliance are 9 year old kids. One way to tell if alliance is 9 years old (Or completly dumb) is if they make a gnome anything besides Mage/warlock. "Gnome rogue is the best, because gnomes are so short, they can't click on them in time!" Umm, you're dumb. Have you ever heard of something called "Tab Targeting"? I've also found that alliance tend to be more mean. I play on Burning legion server and alliance seem to be more mean than horde. But somehow horde still rules over the alliance. They are mean in person as well as being mean to play against. Before i knew what i was doing, i played alliance. I ask one question in Ironforge and i'd get awnsers like "ROFLBBQ NUBLET!" My friends started to play horde, and I always wanted to make a druid, so I did, and never went back to alliance, besides from making fun of Leeroy once.
I'm not really into the whole RP aspect of the game. I'm just leveling so i can do AV and AB. I can understand the RP aspect of the alliance, because the only REALLY customizable race on the Horde is Undead.

So, in conclusion.
Horde= Leveling, and having fun with your experence, and getting great items, and being able to kick ass in BG, and just raids in general
Alliance= Mostly RP. I have nothing else to say about them at the moment.

Now if you'll excuse me, i'm going to go to Menethil harbor in cat form and kill level 60's deuling.

Thank you and goodnight.

Posted by: Zoonosis on October 10, 2005 8:29 AM

By the way, I hit level 58 on Saturday. /cheer

Posted by: Zoonosis on October 10, 2005 8:33 AM

You're variation in mean player age is on the order of 1 year, your standard deviation is 8ish, and your t-scores are in the 5ish range on a sample of 1k? Could be, and I'm hardly going to do the math, but it doesn't *feel* right.


Posted by: RCMorea on October 25, 2005 5:23 PM

The t-scores in the table are for motivation scores, not age. I don't even report the t-score or p-value for the age difference above because it was so marginally signficant.

Posted by: Nick Yee on October 25, 2005 5:46 PM

alliance gets owned in bg's, but their paladins help them get farther in instances.


Posted by: voodoo on November 22, 2005 2:47 PM

I must be the exception that proves the rule.

IRL, female, 40 years old.

I emphasize roleplay, exploration and (crafting) achievemnt in my gaming. I'm a social builder.

And I chose horde, female for a large number of reasons, including the fact that I find all of the female alliance avatars to be downright grotesque. Not in the least bit visually appealing. Believe it or not, I find troll females to be the least ugly avatars to be found in WoW -- out of all faction, race and gender choices. Least attractive? Female night elves.

I found the lack of visual customization choices in WoW to be a serious turn off. In the end, I wandered away from the game because I found it to be resistant to my primary playstyles. It literally seemed to punish the "good team player", though I suspect a great deal of that was more in the players than the game itself and might indeed be wound up with playing horde, though my experiences watching my husband play alliance (male human paladin) suggest that they (players on the alliance side)are no better in the good sportsmanship rating.


Posted by: Azhrarn on December 22, 2005 2:13 AM

I am currently playing horde myself i just started with a orc hunter and i am having a great time, i had a higher lvl elf priest for a while on the same server which is kaz geroth but I soon found that the alliance players were very poor in group situations with tanks generally assuming the rolls of support or semi support positions. I especially hated elf hunters for some reoson there just terrible compared to dwarf or horde hunters
In conclusion ALLIANCE SUCKS

Thanks and good night

Posted by: Tuggnut on December 22, 2005 11:32 AM

ofcourse all the 1337 counterstrike kids play undeads those little kids have or have zero life experience, they pick a evil race because its cool!

Posted by: kalle on March 16, 2006 5:02 AM

Ha ha! I'm damn glad I've found this thread.
IRL, 16 male.
WoW, 41 tauren male.

The Horde is quite possibly one of the most organized and tactically professional team of kids ages 13+. Unfortunately, this does not apply to all of us. There are those among us who have the mental capacity and typing skills of an eight year old, and I'm not proud at all to say that they do show up quite often in our races. (Fellow Horde, remember Barrens Chat?) Luckily, most of these players rarely make it past 30. I've spoken to one of these players, a 12 orc hunter. They said "the hrde suks i gota lv l44 nightelf oyu fuckng fagot". And I believed him. A note to all those who have been to internet or LAN cafes, I dont know anything about any near you, but the closest one to me is filled with one of three types of people, children 8-11 years old with 55 female night elves, 21-30 year old men with 60 female night elves, and kids my age, all mid to high level Horde. I say nothing bad about the alliance races, just I'm uncomfortable with those who play them. I fear the expansion pack because those who love night elves will choose blood elves. I hope that they find the horde stilll unsatisfactory and stay alliance.

Posted by: Kraninovv on March 16, 2006 12:40 PM

RL 17 male

I play a 41 level Troll on Kirin Tor. I have found that the Alliance players tend to be much younger...I have also found that the Alliance tend to be revolved around the female night elf races. I must confess my first two months in WoW I was playing a night elf warrior thinking that I would find good RP on the "good side". I find that MOST RP is on Horde side. In my opinion that seems to be because we don't sit in inns or taverns in the human realm watching half naked computerized avatars dance...*sigh*. Anyway I posted to say that I am worried because of the expansion also. The Blood Elves were a bad idea altogether. I get a bad feeling that we are going to get bombarded by ex-nightelf females going after new more human like yet "sexier" blood elves...whether or not they are accepted, well we can only hope they are not.

Posted by: Sycorax on March 17, 2006 7:38 PM

Just watch, when people start rollong bloodelves, the horde will start mysteriously sucking at BGs.

Posted by: on March 24, 2006 2:43 AM

I would never want to roleplay with a human. I did with a dwarf for 3 years and that was a bit too close to a drunk irishman(?) every day! :D I would still be an orc even if I wanted to roleplay, the background material on orcs in azeroth is really abundant :)

Posted by: Catkain on March 24, 2006 4:02 AM


Actually, I do not spend the game looking at my toons ass. I'm looking at the battle or the back of his head.

My question to you is: why are you looking at your toons ass?

Posted by: Imbalanced on April 5, 2006 2:48 PM

I agree with Holly. I worry that people who choose human/Alliance are not enjoying their own imaginations as much as they could. I play a female troll and she's as sexy as any wimpish night elf. And has cool tusks, and a sense of humour. Not at all like me in RL (except for the tusks of course). Though she is of the Horde, she is thoroughly honourable and polite (if cheeky), and has found the vast majority of fellow Horders to be same. I think the feeling of outsider "monsterism"/racial weirdness may bind Horde members more closely together, and that the Horde ethic may appeal to those with an uneasy feeling of "difference" in RL to start with. -f/35

Posted by: Alison on May 2, 2006 8:33 AM

I agree with Kranow and Alison, back when i played alliance all i ever saw were Feamale Night elfs and pallys, and they were all ass hats (pardon my language) When i swiched to Horde most of the people were vary polite not "savage" or just flat out rude to you because you didnt know somthing.

Posted by: Bkuestar on May 18, 2006 1:39 PM

Prejudice against alliance or horde is just that, prejudice. I play on the Aszune server , a 'mature' server, and i play both horde and alliance characters, and i must say that stupidity is no respecter of race or class. I have had appalling experiences of PUG's on both sides , as well as good ones.
Once people have been playing a while they want to experiment with the different things the game has to offer. Mind you , i will agree alliance raids on the Barrens are really boring for the horde and they have my complete sympathy there.

Posted by: Argrath on May 19, 2006 5:28 AM

Unfortunately I agree with horde guys.. I'm an ally and almost in every server alliance have more gang players,corpse campers... even in pirate servers! And horde more organized then alliance... but I'm still alliance =) maybe some day I can show them true way =P

Posted by: DarkSpirit on May 19, 2006 10:11 AM

Im 17 in RL and i've been playing WoW for around 3 months now. My first choice in race was a Troll Hunter (which is now lv 43), and since creating my Troll character i have made several other horde 'alts'. i was attracted to the horde because i found thier background and art far more interesting and origional than a particularily bland alliance.
i have played characters on both the alliance and horde sides and i must admmit that the atmosphere on the horde side is far more friendly. people are more willing to give advice and to lend a helping hand and there is a much larger sense of community.
one thing that really gets on my nerves is the mentality shared among most typical alliance players (8-13 year old kids) that the horde is 'evil'. this winds me up because it is far from true, if you look back at some of the lore in WoW, the horde have some of the most unfairly treated races in all of azeroth. so in actual fact the most 'evil' faction in azeroth is probably going to be the alliance.

Posted by: on May 21, 2006 6:20 PM

RL: 19 Male
Wow: 42 Tauren Hunter, 24 Human Priest, 22 Tauren Druid.

When I started playing the server my friends were playing on was closed for character creation, so I picked another server to get a feel for the game on while I waited for it to open up.

My normal play style lends itself to the Human Priest style, so I decided to do something so totally different I'd never consider it normally except as a temporary character. Hence my Tauren Hunter.

Finally my server opened up and I created my human priest and started playing with my friends in RL. I liked the priest a lot; it's fun to just go around helping people, being the character that can step in at the last instance to make the difference between victory and defeat.

Then I got high enough to go into the BG.

The alliance split into two raids and argued about who was raid leader. Then they split up and went in 9 different directions. Then we lost 3 flags to 0. I switched back to my Hordie and never looked back, except recently when I switched to the Tauren Druid, restoration spec, becaus it falls in line with the style of play I like best, like the priest. I think I may make it my Main eventually

I'm of the opinion now that the Tauren are the only "not evil" race in the game, and I play them almost exclusively. I've been attacked by gnomes after saving their lives from mobs, backstabed by NE rogues 40 levels above me in neutral towns, ganked by epiced 60 pallys comming down the lift from thunder bluff, and zerged by entire groups of alliance after they noticed me fighting two mobs at once.

The other horde characters aren't realy "evil" per say, but they're not exactly neutral either. In the undead's case it's not exactly their fault the plague killed them, and although they're bloodthirsty you have to admire the honor the Orcs play with. The trolls are more funny than anything else.

Posted by: Jonathan on May 22, 2006 7:39 AM

I'm going to have to agree with "" on this one, beef. I play horde because I like playing horde... I know on alliance side there are a lot of morons and yeah, we got morons on horde too. Still, there's a lot of good pvpers I've played against on my hordie whom I have a lot of respect for.

The point is, this is a discussion about why people choose one faction over the other, not a shouting match over which side you think is best.

Posted by: Jonathan on May 23, 2006 12:03 PM

I play Alliance simply because I think they are the "good guys". Why? well historically the good guys are attractive (we're made to believe this through sublimal messages fed to us through years of TV and Hollywood). I play Kaldorei because they represent what is pure and natural -- especially druids. Their lore is deep and honorable, and their existence seem to have more purpose than all the other races Horde or alliance.

Yes I've tried Horde, and yes I felt evil simply because I was a green Orc or a huge hairy Tauren -- I detest ugly things that are also historically associated with evil. I do not find a difference in player styles or skill Alliance or Horde. the same people I played with on Bleeding Hollow won PVP and the same people lost as Alliance on Warsong. Why was this? Well simply game combat unbalanced mechanics. At the time specifically Tauren shaman. Playing one was a breeze (st the time) and playing a Kaldorei Druid a task, very difficult and extremely frustrating.

I play a Kaldorei Warrior now. I'm big on role-playing, huge on PVP -- Yes I wish I could kill my own faction, and I enjoy huge raids.

I will always play the "Good" side, I will always be "Elf" or some form of "Elf" because I've been that in MMORPGs for almost 8 years.

Fun thread, thanks.

Mjolniir -- Maelstorm (Warrior)

Posted by: Rolland on May 25, 2006 7:24 PM

It was interesting finding this website and reading people's thoughts. As someone with a degree in anthropology, I've often pondered why people choose to play the characters they do - what they are trying to say about themselves versus what they do behind a veil of anonymity.

I, personally, wound up playing horde because the majority of my friends rolled horde (Mal'Ganis, and yes, I post on SomethingAwful), and my boyfriend was enamored with the thought of playing a troll. I, personally, wanted to roll a night elf at the time, since I was ignorant of the lore, and wanted to play one of the nicer-looking races.

However, after researching the lore, it quickly became apparent that only the tauren seemed to be truly "good" - and so I considered a tauren shaman or druid. However, since my friends (as trolls and orcs) would be starting out in a completely different area, I eventually decided on playing as a female orc shaman - a race and class combo that I have come to truly enjoy. The lore concerning orcs is fairly specific about their shamanistic roots, and Thrall is a wonderful example of a non-evil horde protagonist.

Good and bad are relative in this game...npcs ask you to complete tasks of varying types - and often these quests have questionable morals behind them, regardless of which side you play. Horde is not bad, and alliance is not good - they're both different sides of the same coin, and which you choose to play depends on what you're trying to be in the game. You can play a pally - a character who should be the epitome of what is "good" - but be a miserable, nasty person, harassing everyone around you and despised by your own faction as well as the horde. Or you could create an undead rogue and skip around alliance zones stunning and poisoning mobs that lowbies are fighting, rescuing them from peril and vanishing. The choice is truly your own - do you wish to play a hero, villain, or something in between?

I, personally, play the game as I'd like to be treated, even if I can't expect other people to show me the same courtesy. For example, alliance on my server are extremely rude and hostile - I can't tell you the number of times, while levelling, I've been outright ganked by a pally in full epics or a 60 gnome with a complex. I choose not to gank, and I've been known to help lowbie alliance if I see they're struggling with adds or a bad pull. I randomly wave, dance, smile, wink, and hug people, because,'s fun! I'd much rather form an uneasy grinding alliance with a human warlock than outright kill him. And, when it comes down to it, I guess I just don't see the challenge in attacking someone more then 7 or so levels lower than you, and I never will.

This has been a far longer post than intended, but my point is that I think it is foolish to choose a race based on whether or not they're "good" or "evil" - choose a race because they have interesting lore, because you think they look nice, because they're in the same starting area as your friends, etc. I believe that, in the end, if you've made a good CLASS choice, and if you're playing the game in a style that suits YOU, you'll enjoy playing any race in the game. Limiting yourself to one faction based on absolute notions of good and evil will only deprive you of the chance to experience new and interesting things in the game...and we all should realize that this game is what you make of it!

-Sarula (Shaman) Mal'Ganis

Posted by: Courtney on May 30, 2006 9:39 AM

Fascinating thread. (Hope no one minds that I post here... I just found this site while surfing Google out of boredom.)

To be honest, I've always wanted to go Horde myself, because I'm drawn to the "good" side, but my friends all rolled Alliance, so...

Yes, from an RP standpoint, I believe that the Horde are, generally speaking, slightly less "evil" and much less arrogant than the Alliance. The Night Elves have become increasingly powerhungry (hence Teldrassil,) and the Dwarves run around digging up everything in sight regardless of the welfare of the people whose territory they're excavating... The Orcs and Tauren, on the other hand, are almost entirely, flawlessly honorable, the Trolls mostly keep to themselves, and the only truly "evil" races is the Undead.

As for the actual nature of the players on each side, I haven't actually noticed a major difference. You might think that there are indeed less jerks in the Horde than the Alliance, but that illusion will be dispelled as soon as you enter the Barrens with general chat enabled. As for "gankers" and "griefers," people only believe that those are more common on one side than the other because they only witness (for the most part) ganking from the other side. I have been slaughtered/camped/etc. by Horde members 6+ levels above me many, many times throughout the course of leveling up two characters (one to 46, the other to 33, with a bunch of alts that aren't very high.)

It doesn't really bother me, though, and in the end, I don't think it matters at all... for me, the satisfaction of meeting one friendly, sane player outweighs the irritation of running into a hundred idiots. For example, when I was about level 30 on my warrior, I was running through the elite "Dun Modr" quest series with a group of five... then a level 47 tauren hunter showed up. Instead of killing us, however, he helped us clear out the mobs we were having trouble with for a good 20 minutes or so. That made my day. :P

The one aspect of this debate that really annoys me is the extreme age-related prejudice that is so common on both sides. The immature jerks I've met in this game generally fall anywhere between the ages of 10 and 25, with the average being about 16-17. Nonetheless, virtually everyone in this game will shun you if they discover that your age is below 15. This is why I never mention it unless absolutely necessary, and why I'm posting under a pseudonym... actually, I quit recently, but it never hurts to be on the safe side. >_> I'm 14, myself.

Well... in conclusion, even though I've left this game for another, it's nice to know that there are still plenty of sane people in the vastness of WoW.

Posted by: Reis on June 7, 2006 1:08 PM

RE to Rolland:
Ok this isn't meant as a slam, but I'm kind of glad that Horde is uglier that Alliance simply for the fact that people some people up Alliance for that reason. If you can't get past how the character looks, I don't want you judging the character of my hordies.

Adolf Hitler was a hansom and charismatic leader. Winston Churchill was old and wrinkly.

I'd rather be on Churchill's moral ground than Hitler's, thank you very much.

RE to Reis: I wish all the kids in WoW were like you. It's always bugged me the way everyone expects the younger players to be stupid and inept simply by merit of their age. I've run into some double-take moments myself where the annoyingly immature players turn out to be over 25 or someone you've gotten used to having good, intelligent conversations with turn out to be 12.

Maybe it's just that the older players are simply tired about social rules and don't want to deal with them in real life. I've noticed the younger players make much better RPers as well... maybe nobody's crushed your imaginations yet :)

I like what you describe about how great it feels to have someone of the opposite faction help you out. I've been on both sides of that coin before. It always feels nice to show up when an Alliance toon is six seconds from grizzly death, and instead of killing them like they expect you pull them out of the fire instead. It get's kind of tiresome when they just leave you with all the mob agro and run away, or even worse when they sit down to regen and wait for you to nearly die before attacking you themselves. Nice to know we're appreciated by some people.

Posted by: Jonathan on June 8, 2006 12:35 PM

This thread is very nice.

Just the other day we had the same debate among me and my friends. Horde or alliance?

Most of us became Alliance because 3 of our friends were already deep into Alliance on the Bleeding Hollow server. WoW had become our number one option for communication.

It truely makes my day when a hordie goes out of his/her way to make things easier for me. Just two days ago I was farming shadowpaw panthers in STV when I aggroed too many. This lev 60 Tauren Shaman who was fishing not only did not kill me but helped clear out the adds twice.

In the same area on the same day about an hour later. A level 40 undead just went and killed me. no provocations, no bad looks. I was afk then.

The week before I saw a couple of paladins level 60 camping some poor level 30 hordie.

I guess what I wanted to say is its not the horde o alliance. It's the folks who play who make life in the game somewhat frustrating at times.

But for every 10 aholes in Azeroth there is one who will laways make your day.

Yz on Bleeding Hollow lev 39 Arcane Mage

Posted by: Ronald on July 31, 2006 12:11 AM

I just got harassed because i have horde and this guy has alliance. is it true that horde had complained for paladians?

Posted by: Ry on August 5, 2006 12:09 PM

Well im inclined to agree to the age difference post. The first molten core raid was with a 10 year old tank, no joke he was 10!! almost full wrath, the bloodlords defender, and quel serar, it was amazing hearing his super squeeky little voice in team speak. he was a nice person he bragged about not ganking and i almost felt bad about that gnome rogue....then i realized it was a gnome..... , blizzard screwed horde... a horde pally?!? Blizzard your wrong!

Posted by: Erik on August 6, 2006 12:13 AM

I know it's been about a month since the last post... hey, I'm new here, can I catch a break? :)

Reading up on all the "horde/alliance, which is evil" talk is spurring me to vent my personal fealings (which are based completely on lore) on the subject.

Orc - Noble shamans, got tricked into the "blood pact" with Manaroth. Were corrupted and twisted from their nature into the bloodthirsty, First Horde. With Thrall and (my hero) Grom Hellscream's help, they returned to their shamanistic roots and formed the Second Horde. In summery, they are pig farmers. Sure they'll rip your arm off if you mess with them, but generally good people.

Tauren - "We Tauren have always had the deepest respect for the earthmother." What more is there to say? Many people call them the "only good horde race," but I think that's more out of ignorance of what the Horde is. In summery, the smoke da piece pipe.

Trolls - In ancient times, fought against the spread of the Elves into their ancestral homeland. This sparked a blood feud that continues to this day (except in ways that the WoW dev team decides to screw with lore, aka horde Blood elves). Sure they're "savage" and ya they eat their fallen foes from time to time, but two things on that. 1)Canabalism when it comes to enemies in combat is an ancient tradition in our world as well, and just because it has become very tabu in our culture doesn't make it "evil." 2)The trolls that joined the Horde have sworn off canibalsims and, while still brutal foes, have taken the wonderful influence of the Orcs to heart. In summery, evil? One would be hard pressed to call Vul'jin that.

Undead - Ahh undead. Humans killed by the plague and reborn into the scourge. Silvanis Windrunner set them free from within, creating an autonomous entitiy known as The Forsaken. They joined the Horde for one reason: ensured survival. The Scarlet Crusade, the Scourge, the Alliance... everyone wanted them dead, and why? Because they used to be mindless slaves before finding their minds themselves. They have just as much a right to survive as any other race. They know it and are willing to fight for it. They're looking to find a new plague, something that will halt all the forces trying to kill them once and for all. In summery, they just want to survive. Their methods may be questionable, but what would you do if everyone you used to call friend wants do kill you?

The Alliance:
Humans - The humans will never forgive the orcs for nearly wiping them off the map back when the orcs were under the Blood Craze. Admiral Proudmoore is proof enough of that. (side note, Jaina Proudmoore should be Horde alligned, or at least neutral, after she helped Thrall defend Durotar from her father). They look down on the races of the Horde as barbaric, in a eery paralell to the way modern societies view tribal cultures. In WoW, however, humans don't have the advanced technology to "justify" such fealings. In summery, humans are arrogent, ignorant, and racist. I meant IN game, right... Their xenophobia is second only to...

Night Elves - If it's not night elf, then it's no good. Well, that's how they view it (and apparently 23% of WoW's player base). When Thrall, Jaina, and Cairne were trying to fight the Burning Legion, the elves attacked them with zeal, before they even knew much about them. (as apposed to Thrall and Jaina's initial misgivings, which was based on old emnities) They referred to humans and orcs as "pink skins" and "green skins" respectively. In summery, I am shocked and amazed that they made the NE's an alliance race. I expected their place and that of the Blood Elves to be switched, in that blood elves were an NPC, third faction race that no one got along well with (pre burning crusade). I wouldn't want to be in an alliance with these bigots.

Dwarves - Why do the elves hate the Orcs for cutting down a couple trees, and yet are in an alliance with these people? Trees grow back quicker than a strip-mine. They have an interesting backstory, what with being related to Troggs and all... In summery, not evil, but just as vicious as the most "evil" troll (compare Dark Iron dwarves to Gurubashi trolls), but for some reason don't get the same wrap for it. Probably because of Blizz' anti-horde marketing campaign. Finally...

Gnomes - What is there to say? Factioned goblins. Not evil, not good, pretty neutral so far as I've seen. They're in the alliance because of their friendship with the dwarves, but really just like to tinker. In summery, a lot like many of us in that we're happier behind a computer than swinging an axe. Gnome warriors make as much sense to me as Tauren rogues, but hey, that's Blizz for ya.

What can I say? Ya I play Horde, and I hate Blizzard for making out Alliance to be "the good side" and the Horde to be "evil." It's a lie, and if one were to spend a little time and actually read, they might figure that out, too.

Posted by: Garnoth on September 15, 2006 5:26 PM

nice racial run-down, Garnoth :) Pretty accurate.

When I first started playing WoW I clicked Alliance and never considered anything else. After reading about and getting to know the Horde races, you start to figure out that they're merely in competition with the Alliance, not evil blood-thirsting savages. Though I'll never admit to that while I'm PVPing ingame :P and I've rolled a few Horde toons to 13 or so. I still overall prefer Alliance (I just really like my NE, and I'm not an 8 year old LOTR fan either).

As far as Players go, I actually experienced more immature general banter over on the Horde side than the alliance, and that was on a 3 month old server as opposed to my alliance toon on a launch day server.

Posted by: Windsong on September 28, 2006 1:03 PM

I've been playing the alliance side for over two years now. Recently however I've decided to make 'the switch' over to horde. I've noticed that immaturity is pretty much even for both sides, however the horde do seem to get along more and cooperate with eachother in groups. Honestly though the only thing I do miss about the alliance is Ironforge. I miss all the snow. :P

Posted by: Matt on September 30, 2006 7:20 AM

I know this may seem off comment but it is the most current link I could find for this article. My husband is severly addicted to the game, he is a Horde player. He lives out fantasy with the char that now has effected his real life.

In RL he was a good gentle person, now he is abbrasive and down right mean. He quit his job over a year ago to play 15-20 hours a day. He farms with his 60LVL char because he says the guild has done so much for him he owes it to them.

He has stated that the more than $2000.00 that he has spent in the last 2 months to buy gold is because he doesnt have the time he needs to quest so it is a payback to all the patient guildies. Over the last year he has spent well over $11,000.00 The money comes from me and it effects our RL greatly. I have changed our accounts and banks numerous times to keep it away from him as best I can.
To which he has stated I do nothing for him and they are there for him whenever he needs them. We have been married for 15 years.
Like I said I know this is a bit off topic but it seems to me that no normal person would take real money and joy from your RL using it to inhance a RPG.

If you find the road to happiness in your game is paved with purchased gold, stop and walk away. If you can put the game aside for a week or two and go back unscathed great. If you find that you can't don't buy the gold get real with yourself and realise your money is better spent on a haircut rather than a cartoon.

Posted by: Jean on October 2, 2006 10:22 AM

I'm curious how many people chose Alliance characters simply because it's the default when you first start the game?

Posted by: Atlantian on October 17, 2006 12:19 PM

personaly Im a lover of the horder undead. moslty because they seem to be far more justifed in there actions then anyone else, there dead and pissed.
Plus after playing It rearly seems to me that the majority of alliance players are just plain mean or ignorent.
its jsut a shame now that all my friends now play alliance so Im stuck with it till the crusade.

oh well, at least I no longer have to deal with the pure ugliness of the horde area's.and the strange undead hatred of sunshine, I mean were evil but were not vampires...

Posted by: efae on October 25, 2006 1:46 PM

I like gnomes the most basically cuz i am the smallest in my grade. It just shows my personality, that is everything i need. By horde i like tauren because when an alliance is attacking, and he could choose betweeen a tauren or an undead, he would choose the undead. (tauren looks stronger cuz he is bigger)

Posted by: gudguy on October 28, 2006 10:27 AM

Wow...extremely nice thread.

Ive been playing WoW for a few months..ive gotten a gnome warlock to 29, dwarf hunter to 26, human pally to 14, gnome rogue to 15, NE druid to 10, tauren warrior to 13, troll warrior to 12, troll shaman to 10. I STILL cannot decide on either horde or alliance...

As how World of Warcraft stands now, the horde is much more appealing to me. I like everything more about them and their lore.

But im afraid of switching over and focusing on the horde. With the burning crusade expansion coming out, the dreine (spelling sorry), are AWESOME to me, personality, looks, classes, everything. The horde (in getting blood elfs), im afraid that ex Nightelfs will come to the horde and ruin the community of the horde. The whole PVP thing will balance out a bit more with the alliance getting shaman. Im just not sure what to do...horde or alliance? I guess I could be both, but i truely do prefer to stick with one race and class and level it.

I guess ill just keep thinking lol, I just wish I could finally decide. On the horde, im deciding between troll orc or tauren. Orc look the best to me, tauren have the best lore, and trolls have the best personality. Ill have to study a bit more before deciding.

N e ways, very nice thread. Ive learned alot.

Posted by: Michael on November 1, 2006 9:12 AM

It seems you misunderstood what he came up with. There is no or almost no age difference between alliance and horde players.

Im 28, Male
have a 60 orc shaman, 60 tauren hunter
also have 60 human warrior and a 60 gnome rogue

Trust me when i say that theres EXACTLY as many 8-10-12-25-50 year olds on both sides.

Ever think about that horde might have what you call a "more skilled" pvp community because they have their different pvp-oriented racials ? From the BG´s ive done on both sides and on four different servers its the same everywhere, no difference at all between maturity of players, corpsecampers or any of that stuff.
It seems to be like the old sports-phenomenon. My team is teh bestest and joor team suckz.

I quit WoW btw because of the lack of depth in the game. so bye bye

Posted by: Gnaker on November 7, 2006 2:22 AM

well i see why alliance doesnt like horde and all and was brought into the game by my brother he said go to the alliance i did i now jus have a little lvl 20 NE druid i dont like him but my brothers a lvl 60 NE rogue and he and his dumb self would declare war and find me eventually kill me and so i thought and i said im goin with horde lol hes been killed 88 times by a orc that was helping me kill him lol soo now ikm attracted to playing orcish warriors, vile undead warlocks and its still fun so my questions this why would you not play someone who supposedly "evil" it cant hurt and besides since the "good" alliance is out killing low level players which is messed up so why??? why cant u just be evil sometimes???

Posted by: styke on November 10, 2006 5:52 PM

I role on Horde because they're more mature and the lore makes sense and lore wise they are good guys.
Humans-produced Arthas, Crazy LIght fanantics(Scarlet Crusaders), rascist, headstrong(Aewyn attacked Sargeras which went to her womb into Medivh sparking Warcraft1 OrcsvsHuman
Dwarves-Drink way to much, and would destroy and defile other people's land(Tauren's and Orcs) for their obsession of learning of the past.
Night Elves- Very arrogant(look at archdruid), attracted the Burning Legion with their magic and well and damaged the world and made it almost like an Outland(continents torn and maelstrom and lives lost)
Gnomes-Have no faith, corrupted dwarves by the Legions 1st invasion, and basically destroyed their own city.
Draenei-2/3 sided with Sargeras, destroyed their own world and Countless others and corrupted other races.
Compared to the Horde's history the ALLIANCE IS MORE EVIL!!

Posted by: Skelun on November 24, 2006 10:17 AM

Horde are slightly more numbered then alliance and are starting to overthrow the alliance in battles but thatsa mainly as i said because of the numbers i chose alliace as i think we can overthrow they horde soon enough. and also alliance are more loyal horde are backstabbers dont trus them they always bakstab me wen i was horde

Posted by: Unreale on December 2, 2006 11:35 PM

I hate how the undead is misunderstood. I wish all of you who just claim they're evil would try to play one, for only a day, and you would understand.

Posted by: Tri4ngle M4n on December 27, 2006 8:09 AM

Alliance members are incredibly sneaky and fight dirty. One time I was at a Battleground when all of a sudden I was attacked by 5 Alliance members who all decided to jump me.

Posted by: Ben on December 29, 2006 2:34 PM

how can you complain about horde , i find horde to be loyal enough plus if one person is having problems everyone is willing to help them out...
alliance i find has more inexpeirienced players and horde has the higher ended guys...

Posted by: GrapeGrog on January 2, 2007 1:49 AM

Why does everyone how this BS about Dwaves messing up the land? Are humans any better as they constantly expand and destroy the forests? Someone mentioned that a forest grows back quicker than a mountain, but I don't think it matters if the human buildings stay in place for hundreds of years. Then there are the Undead... you know all that plauge crap can't be good for the plants and animals around, not to mention the questionalbe long term effects of blight on forests and ground.

The also seems to be a lot of horde sympathizers in here on the "Good vs Evil" discussion. There is no "Evil" side but that of the Burning Legion. The Alliance (with the exception of the Night Elves because I hate them all) may seem more predjudiced, but think what they've been through. Imagine you getting attacked by strange invaders that look like the demons of your faith and tell me you wouldn't be inclined not to trust them. The Alliance didn't know anything about the Orcs until they attacked, and wouldn't you consider a race to be evil if they tried to mercilessly slaughter you without any provocation? So the humans faought back, and with the help of the dwarves they drove the horde back through the portal from whence they came. Then the second war comes along and the horde attacks again, so once more the alliance finds themselves fighting off the "evil" orcs. Then the third war rolls around and the undead show up, as well as the burning legion. The humans war with the orcs has cooled a tad bit, but with the orcs like the blackrock clan who can blame them for beign orc haters? Later in the third war, the orcs fought beside the alliance and seemed friendly enough. Now, if i was the leader of the humans, I wouldn't have trusted the orcs either. All the alliance knows of them is they barbaric ways they fought against them. Who's to say that the orcs aren't just acting friendly to lower the alliance's guard and finish them off after the scourge weakened them? It's for this reason that I don't consider either faction to be evil. All prejudice is based on one form of ignorence or another.

I'm 18, and I play a level 29 Dwarf hunter. I don't like night elves because 1) They are a very "stuck-up" race. 2) Every little boy that's into hentai can't help but play as night elf women for their sex appeal. And you bet Blizzard knows that, that's why they tried to make NE Females as whorish as possible. Make one and type /dance if you don't believe. I like the humans, but I think blizz really messed up the male human noses. I just don't like gnomes because they look stupid IMO. The only horde race I like is Tauren, and that's because a giant Tauren warrior in full plate with a greatsword looks sweet. My favorite race are the Dwarves. I'm a tall slender guy in RL, but I like the Idea of being a little fat muscular guy in WoW. I want my hunter to ride a mountain goat because it's the only mount as hairy as he is lol. this post was long, but I hope it makes someone think about where the alliance prejudice comes from.

Bugenhagen level 29 Dwarf Hunter (and self-proclaimed King of the Dwarves) on Tanaris

Posted by: Bugenhagen on January 10, 2007 10:22 AM

21, Male 60 NE rogue/60 NE Hunter

As far as everyone debating why alliance seem to lose to horde, there are more than a few reasons. One of which is mainly because of eyecandy, I agree somewhat with what others were saying about RP factor, and doing their skills and what not, a lot of alliance players, don't enjoy PvP. Thats why people who generally enjoy PvP are going to choose the horde. Its the eye candy that grabs most audience's attention, where as players who enjoy the storyline will choose a race based on their bg, and their ability to compare their realitys to their backgrounds. With that being noted, It seems that horde travel in a group more often becaue they understand the idea of having a priest and a mage at your side, they realize the tactics, and most Alliance players who PvP don't group as much, solo usually and think they can take the horde on one on one, not to mention, I rarely see priests on alliance side healing.

So tactically the horde will usually win, because alliance players, will choose to do what they want, and horde stick together, this coming from a 60 NE rogue and Hunter, I love PvP, and have seen it all too much before, you cannot complain about the differences of races or stats. But rather the actual ambition and motivation behind the keyboard.

Posted by: Dan on January 15, 2007 3:27 PM


I don't think any of the sides are evil. Its not that cut and dry.. Tell you truth i like some of the horde characters.. Some might call me evil i guess.. i do good too i enchant ppl's stuff for free i pass on a lot of items i really don't need that others might.. Now for the bad i camped out two horde char. They where lvl 43 shaman and lvl 43 warrior. I didn't stay long alot of alliance people started to show so i left. Now was I bad prolby but i had fun i am pretty sure they have done it to other players.. Then sometimes i get bored and go to splinter tree and kill 5 lvls 20-30 at the sametime i might do it for about 20 mins then i will go on my way.. Most time when i see the lower horde I leave them alone.. Now if you are priest you have a 50/50 chance for me not to kill you.. i truly dont care for priest.. i have my own reasons..
i like to go to Tanaris to take a horde 1 on 1 but it always turns out a horde guys comes and helps them or some alliance comes runes the good fight.. got to go

Posted by: Zezel on January 20, 2007 8:17 AM

And yet Bugenhagen your merely looking at two races instead of the whole picture of the factions. Though the orcs were evil in the beginning they have changed with Thrall and earning honor with dignity, and the Alliance lightening up. what's evil was the Alliance like Daelin Proudmoore(Jaina's dad) and the Draenei saying the orcs were and always beasts and destroying the fragile peace. And predjudice=ignorant + action is evil. And with most Draenei siding with the Legion and killing countless world is evil. And after all who brought the orcs to Azeroth.... it was Medivh the self proclaimed human prodigy.

Posted by: Skelun on January 22, 2007 4:56 PM

-I don't know what you consider "honorable" play, but "i am pretty sure they have done it to other players" sounds eerily similar to the justifications cops in the 60s used to come down harder on black Americans.

-"I didn't stay long alot of alliance people started to show so i left."
I'm glad you had such good reasons to stop harassing them as well.

-"sometimes i get bored and go to splinter tree and kill 5 lvls 20-30 at the sametime i might do it for about 20 mins"
I really don't understand how this is evidence that the good or evil of the sides is not "cut and dry."

Sorry if I upset you, but I was a guildmaster for a short time and I have actually removed people from my guild for griefing Alliance characters.

One thing I've noticed about this thread is that people who have only played one side or another have been stepping in to say their side is the best. I've played both sides. I can tell you from experience that there is no age difference, maturity difference, or experience difference. One thing I HAVE noticed is that because of the population difference there is a vast difference in the way you must advance as an Ally compared to the way you advance as a Hordling. On alliance, you aren't playing with other characters. You, (and sometimes your friends with you) are competing with them for resources. There are too many alliance, and not enough monsters to slay in their zones. The horde, on the other hand, learn very, very early how to solo successfully, and shortly thereafter learn how valuable it is to stick with what few other hordlings there are in any particular zone. You learn to make do shorthanded, or you give up and roll an Ally.

As a simple summary: It takes far more trust and skill to four-man an elite quest from an instance, than it does for you and four of your closest friends to steal quest objectives from the other twenty allies in your zone.

But I'm a heavy RPer, so I'll stick with Horde for the lore as well. Alliance lore is... well, bland. In a basic sense it's just another story of how the elves, dwarves, and humans formed their everlasting alliance. I've read that about fifty times in poorly written fantasy novels; Blizzard is in the business of making games, not writing good stories. Horde lore isn't much better but hey, at least it's unique.

Someone above said something to the effect that "Anyone who thinks the undead are evil should roll one and see for themselves." I've rolled an undead... they are evil. Your starting quests involve poisoning prisoners, killing people who have disobeyed Lady Sylvanas, and attempting to engineer a plague in order to wipe out the remaining human population. They left a foul taste in my mouth, so I went back to my Taurens. Misunderstood is one thing... I know they didn't choose to be undead, but they do choose to continue a quest of calloused destruction therein.

I know this is probably the wrong place, but while we're on the lore subject I've really got to vent this. I'm really fed up with Blizzard's choice of new races for the Burning crusade. I was hoping the new alliance race would be something that actually made sense, such as the Cenarion centaur/dryads (heck, they had centaur heroes on the Night Elf faction in WC3), and the last thing I wanted on horde side was a "pretty" race.

Before the WoW expansion, there has only been ONE draenai in the history of Warcraft. In Warcraft Three there was a random monster that would spawn occasionally called the "Daenai Shaman." Somehow they've decided that a one-time use EVIL monster should be the basis for an entire race on the alliance, on the supposed side of "good." And how do they do this? They repeat the "corruption and redemption" story they’ve already used on the Orcs.

The Blood Elves are even worse... they simply don't exist at all as far as the previous games go. Blizzard actually had to steal lore, geography, and history that belonged to the Night Elves in WC3 and give it to the Blood Elves.

The history of elves in Warcraft goes something like this:
1) WC1: There are no elves. They are a myth.
2) WC2: WC2 contains some units on the "human" faction that happen to look like elves. They aren't High Elves, Blood Elves, or Night Elves. They're just elves.
3) WC3: Most of the elves disband themselves from their alliance with the humans and dwarves, and form their own clan, known as the "Night Elves." Some remain with the humans as priests or mages.
4) WoW: The Night Elves change their mind, and reenter the Alliance. Silly elves.
5) WoW BC: Blood Elves appear out of nowhere. Certain Night elf cities, heroes, and histories are randomly taken from the Night Elves and now belong to the Blood Elves, with no explanation other than "They've always been Blood Elves." WTF?!?

Posted by: Jonathan on February 4, 2007 11:01 PM

Ok, I really have to clear my head about this whole "Alliance is evil" fad. The basic story of Warcraft goes; Humans live happily in they're kingdoms, with only menial threats to contend with. Out of nowhere, a savage, giant, fanged race of bloodthirsty brutes surges into their lands and slaughters every man, woman and child they come into contact with. The humans, not ones to go down without a fight, fight back as savagely as they can and ultimately win because they were indeed the smarter, moral and stronger race.

Despite the fact that they were almost driven to racial extinction by the orcs, the humans decide to do the humane thing and not slaughter them like cattle, instead spending huge amounts of money and time building camps to hold the Orcs, in the hope that they will one day be rehabilitated. Then, along comes one sick, bumbling, drunk who decides to commit treason to gain superiority over his countrymen and subvert the orcs to his own will. Thankfully, an honorable warrior named Thrall put a stop to this and freed the orcs.

So, now the humans are living relatively peacefully in their own lands because the new horde does not wish to eradicate them.

Unfortunately, a former ORC named Ner'zhul willingly becomes the Lich King, agreeing to do everything he can to finish what the orcs have started and wipe humanity from the map.

At the same time, a large faction of demon-worshipping orcs have emerged and begin to do what they do best, killing humans without a second thought. Fortunately the humans still retain their superiority and crush the orcs. However, peace is short lived because now the undead have begun their rise. The prince of the Humans, eternally dedicated to the protection of his beloved people, eventually falls into madness after being tricked into taking up Frostmoure, something created by the ORC Ner’zhul a.k.a. the Lich King.

So now, the humans, once again on the verge of extinction, flee to Kalimdor at the behest of a mysterious prophet. There, they once again meet up with their old enemy and duke it out old-school for their continued survival. Overcoming decades of persecution and war, the human survivors agree to ally with the orcs to rescue Grom Hellscream, a chieftain who WILLINGLY gave up his newfound freedom to dink the blood of the Demon that originally corrupted his race.

Because of HUMAN aid, the orcs succeed and slay Mannoroth. Now, united, the humans and orcs meet up with the night elves to make the final stand for the world and succeed in saving all life on their planet.

So, apparently, the treacherous and evil dealing of one prison master, the war of a weathered Admiral, and the inaction of a handful of corrupt politicians suddenly wipes the slate clean of all the nobility and wonder that humanity has achieved and suddenly turns them into the evil, perverted, arrogant race?

And the Undead and Orcs are supposed to be misunderstood?

Posted by: ZombieMan on February 5, 2007 10:57 AM

ZombieMan: You have your lore slightly confused. Yes, the alliance was defending themselves from demon-possessed Orcs in WC1, and yes they were "nice" enough to enslave the entire race instead of commit mass genocide. Yes, what portion of the Orcs that are still demon possessed continue to be a thorn in the side of decency, generally harassing the humans and attempting to open dark portals and whatnot.

But this trend changes... the Orcs that are still free flee the burning legion’s grip to Kalimdor at the behest of the prophet (sound familiar?), ally themselves with the noblest race in the game, the Tauren, and then proceed to wipe out the tribes of still demon-possessed Orcs that are harassing the humans there.

Meanwhile, the great human leader Prince Arthas spends his time culling his own citizens, murdering his allies in order to obtain weapons he fully knows are cursed, and preparing the world for the coming of the scourge. The scourge itself exists only because the Orcs were able to resist the demonic taint and rebel... by Arthas's examples, the demons would already have won if it had been humans instead.

But this is all irrelevant... at this point in the history it's survivalist time. The demons are invading, and those with the courage stand together to fight them, whether they are Orcs, elves, or humans. On the side of good we have the greatest heroes of the Orcs, what Night Elves have survived to fight another day, and... The human trash Arthas left behind when he betrayed the entire planet to the demons. Apparently, they’ve finally decided that their Orc racism is not worth being wiped out by demons. Go humans.

And so the humans AID the Orcs in defeating Mannoth, and AID them in defending the World Tree. The townspeople rejoice, for the demons have been beaten back, just in time for... some of the humans to betray the Orcs and attack them again, sparking the conflict in WoW.

There's something all of you should consider. In this game, THE humans are not evil, THE Orcs are not evil, THE night elves are not evil, SOME of ALL of them are evil. Is that too hard to understand?

Posted by: Jonathan on February 5, 2007 2:52 PM

Hello all. This has been an interesting topic and I found I just had to comment.

I started out my WoW days as a Tauren Druid. Before I started playing, I was set on having a Night Elf, as they were always my favorite race to play in Warcraft III. However, after watching the intro cinematic, I became even more interested in the Tauren than I had been previously from playing the Founding of Durotar campaign in Warcraft III.

Well, I enjoyed my Tauren immensely, though I always thought the Night Elf druids had cooler bear and cat forms (especially since the Tauren cat form has a nasty graphical glitch when sitting). Nonetheless, the more I played my Tauren, the more I began to dislike the Alliance (those darn NPC's were killin' me!). However, when my boyfriend at the time got the game, he made a Human Paladin. He and his best friend were both Alliance, and they encouraged me to be Alliance as well. At first, I was stubborn and remained a Tauren (though I traveled all the way from Booty Bay to Elwynn Forest at level 13 to visit my boyfriend with the help of a 33 NE druid who pitied me as I kept dying in STV). However, I eventually caved and made a Night Elf druid. I was quickly sucked into the Alliance. I quickly found that I was making more friends on Alliance than I ever had on the Horde, and found this to be appealing. At his 35th level (and my 33rd level), my boyfriend quit WoW. At this point, I had grown a great affection for my Night Elf and stayed with Alliance even though both my boyfriend and his friend quit.

My Night Elf is now level 62 and kicking some serious butt in Outlands, however, I have recently had thoughts about switching to the Horde again. I'm torn both ways; for there are things about both factions that I like and dislike.

Humans: Eh. My feelings toward them are rather split. Yeah, some are honorable and great, but then I look at how Jaina's father basically broke the truce and attacked the Orcs. Not sure what to think about them.

Dwarves: Dwarves are an amusing race. Their affinity for alcohol never ceases to make me smile. However, I'm not a fan of the fact that they have to mine and exavate any land that isn't a city.

Night Elves: As stated earlier, they've always been a race that I liked. Yes, they may seem racist to some, but to me it's just part of their duty to be distrustful to other races at first; who knows whether these strangers are friend or foe to their beloved glades?

Gnomes: ...Amusing to an extent, otherwise... yuck! Sorry, but as a tree-hugger in real life, I'm not a fan of their industrial society.

Draenei: Not much to say about these guys at this point. I do like them though, they seem to be an honorable race.

Orcs: Okay, I like Thrall and all, but being Alliance for so long has made me spiteful toward these guys. I can't tell you how many times two Orcish horde guards have come after me swinging axes and killing me because I was 25 freakin' level lower and just passing through. As a race, they are honorable and fierce, but they've just pissed me off in the past. ;P

Undead: Okay, I understand that these guys just want to find their place in the world now that they've broken away from the Scourge. Hey, they have a right to 'live'. But now they're trying to produce a new plague? Not sure I'm a fan of that.

Tauren: Okay, I LOVE the Tauren. To me, they are the most honorable race out there. I very much like them for their ties to Native American culture and because their "religious" beliefs greatly reflect those of my own. Tribes, totems, and nature; can't get much better than that for me.

Trolls: I like Trolls. I really do. I always thought they were a pretty neat race, mostly because of the Founding of Durotar campaign in Warcraft III (gotta love Vol'jin).

Blood Elves: My first impression was--"Those magic-abusing bastards!" However, after making a Blood Elf priest just for fun, I became rather fond of them. In fact, I now think "those human bastards!" because the humans turned on them when they found out the BE's had allied with the Naga to find a new source of magic. Overall, I like 'em.

So, there are my views.

Now, from my views, it would appear that I like more about the Horde races than I like about the Alliance races. This is true.

However, today I thought I'd try going back to Horde for a bit. I hopped on my 26 Tauren Druid and got into a WC group. Well, not only did the group break up shortly after the first boss, but it seemed to me that the people in the group were less than pleasant. Now, not to say that stuff like that doesn't happen in Alliance groups, but it was rather discouraging. Who knows? I may have just gotten a bad group. I may try again tomorrow and see how things go.

In any case, I am torn between the two factions.

Talarai (62 Night Elf Druid on Blackhand)
Raincatcher (26 Tauren Druid on Blackhand)
Real Life: Laura (19 year-old-female Human in Wisconsin)

Posted by: Laura on February 14, 2007 11:10 PM

I don't think you can rightly say whether or not alliance is "meaner" than horde or vice versa. From what I've seen, that's completely server dependent. Being an "altoholic", I've created horde and alliance alts on several servers and it's pretty much a mixed bag, from what I've seen.

I can't say I really prefer one over the other, as an altoholic, it sort of just depends on my mood which side to play. Horde if I'm feeling aggressive, alliance if I'm feeling silly and social. Gnome males have wicked mustaches (heh, heh pink ftw!) but Undead and Blood Elf racials, c'mon.

RL: Female, 23

Posted by: mofowithyoyo on February 22, 2007 8:25 PM

I started out in the Alliance-because my brother is there and it makes sense so we can quest and go through instances. A month after I rolled in my druid and mage, I made a Troll hunter and a Tauren shaman.

All my characters (Night Elf druid, Gnome mage, Tauren shaman, Troll hunter) are flagged as pvp in a non pvp server. The other night, I was questing (as my mage) and the other person in the party asked, "Why are you flagged as pvp if you're only level 23?"...well, shortly afterwards a Troll rogue jumped up and hugged me. I understand, it was an easy/silly kill-he appeared as "Level ???".

And I'll agree, Horde players tend to be more "driven" and are a little more willing to take challenges, then again it could always just be the Horde players I come across. The Alliance players I know can care less about pvp.

I went to the Horde just to see what their side is terms of story, quests and besides-my favorite city is Thunderbluff :). But, to say "All Horde players are mature" is really stretching it. I play in both Alliance and Horde equally-and I've come across really cool players, and some who get on your nerves. Yeah, real life creeps in WoW in the strangest ways.

Posted by: Moonkin on February 27, 2007 8:32 PM

I am a NE Druid and I have been ganked and corpse camped by Horde players mostly in my level range 22 to 25. Usually two at a time and usually when I am fighting a monster. Ashenvale and Astranaar seem to be happy hunting grounds for Horde players to hammer Alliance players.

I have also had some wonderful experiences with a Troll ?? and a ?? Tauren Druid who helped me when I didn't pull a mob correctly and I was in over my head, or simply didn't kill me.

There are good and bad players on both sides.

Posted by: Lennie on March 1, 2007 2:41 PM

Bleh i have a lvl 70 hunter (ally) and its sucks so i made a belf rly goood :)

Posted by: Bleh on March 5, 2007 2:53 AM

I think that it's really stupid to just say "All the 8 year olds pick alliance, so it's filled with complete immature n00bs who will ruin your experience and make your life a reck". I'm 11 myself and I think that age or faction discrimination is completely pointless. Both sides probably have enouhg people to rip your hair out and enough people to make your heart pirouette. I've only played with alliance, but my friend has told me of people just as immature on the horde

Posted by: Joey on March 13, 2007 6:03 PM

i have a lvl 63 orc hunter even though i have only ever played Horde.. i chose horde because i thought they were more intresting and they have more history. I have also found Horde players generally don't mind helping out each other. eg randomly asking someone to help you quest or give money.Even i once took a huge group of about 15 through Wailing Caverns cause i felt like it... in the end i ended up being mailed money from one of the ppl i took thru WC from one of there alts.... 30g... =D. From my obervation and reading of various articles i believe Horde are better for people looking to just have fun and group instance. Alliance i believe is for the more serious ppl who want to basically want things here and now. i also have several peeps who have alliance toons who say the alliance quests are dull and unexiting

Posted by: Adam on March 19, 2007 4:55 PM

oh.... and about horde being immature...all you alliance players create a horde toon and go to barrens.... you will have a tonn of laughs in Barrens Chat.... xD bloody hell i laugh every time i go to Barrens... i usually comment and get the FTW comment from several Toons..CHUCK NORRIS ROCKS..... FTW. Horde aint immature it's called having fun and socializing

Posted by: Adam on March 19, 2007 4:59 PM

sorry for the tripple post... but and 3 peeps JUST GANKED all of southshore for like 5 HOURS....LOOL i it was fun ganking ppl just as they LOGGED ON XD revenge for all those ganking/camping ally

Posted by: Adam on March 19, 2007 5:03 PM

RL 25 male
Ingame 62 male tuaren druid

My idea of the horde is as endangered lions, tigers, etc. And alliance as human beings who are taking over the world of the animals pretending to be the good guys. Think about it, how often does crossroads get attacked by high lvl alliance players? Every few hours. Its not the savage horde being savage. Its the good alliance with their pretty looking characters being evil that makes me don't like them. Being a horde player I have become very experienced pvp wise..because there are too many alliance and I have encountered thousands of them getting to lvl 62. Pve wise alliance are way ahead of horde because they have more players making it easy to find people to run instances. Doing more instances means your server's auction house is full of items and you have a decent gear. In other words alliance are more likely to have better gear than horde players, however, most of them lack the ability to pvp. I have also noticed that the people who play human race don't gank low lvl players as much as nighelf playing people.

Posted by: Dar on May 22, 2007 5:03 AM

WoW: 67 human pally, 65 dwarf hunter, 33 orc warrior

Yes, I play on both sides and I think they are both the same... about horde has power, alliance get over it! and horde your slow!!! they both have their weakness and resistances

P.S. PALLYS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: on May 23, 2007 6:30 PM

Hello again. With my UD mage I have reached lvl 65 then I quit WoW, at least for awhile, due to clash in my schedule. True Zombieman you are correct to a small extent. Peaceful humans?? Hardly, they had Medivh who helped aid the orcs to cross to Azeroth. And if you have done or heard of the Caverns of Time instance in where you must help him open the Dark Portal then you would know it's good for all. If the orcs never came the humans, like today, would go out and start a bloody war with the dwarves and elves and each other, the Alliance would never had formed, the Legion would sucessfully ensue a mass genocide and destroy all of Azeroth. The orcs in your eyes should at the very least be a necessary evil they helped ensure the world would be safe for all, be it alliance, horde, or neutral.

Posted by: Skelun on May 28, 2007 2:19 PM

Im a 12 year old turning 13 soon, and i have very mature convosations with people double my age on the Barthilas server.

Yeah flying over the barrens chat is a bit of a laugh.

Although none of the 2 factions are evil alliance on many servers just dont do anything to help you whether your a horde or ally character ive never gone past an ally character without it ganking/trying to gank me yet ive prob rid past there alts and havent even thought of getting off my mount just to go 1 shot a noob over and over again until they rage quit for a few weeks.

when ive aggroed more then i can handled ive always had someone heal me or help me kill em off.

Posted by: Sean on May 30, 2007 5:02 AM

u are way wrong alliance characters are for kids every guild on the horde side i try to join are adult guilds only for adults there are many 10 year olds on the alliance

Posted by: Cody on May 30, 2007 12:26 PM

the horde covers 65 % of the hole game yea the alliance wants to take back 15% but ...

Posted by: Cody on May 30, 2007 12:31 PM

complete bollocks, sorry..... on our server there is waaaay, waaaay more Allies than Horde, and they seem to comprise of annoying 13+ year olds more than anything.

Posted by: Cuza on May 31, 2007 5:57 AM

This topic turns 2 years old in just a couple of months. Awesomeness!

My two bits: I picked NE primarily because all of their classes have at least a limited form of "stealth" - which helps you to do many things including but not limited to:

i) Ambush
ii) AFK without getting killed
iii)Spectate fights


Posted by: AimingBlind on June 12, 2007 2:15 AM

33 blood elf priest
scarlet crusade

I started playing mmorpgs when i was 8, i played DAoC. After a few years i got hooked on WoW, playing hored. I enjoy the hored because its not as easy as what me and friends call "easy mode" aka Alliance. often times I watch the alliance stratiges, most of them being gank and over power. Though i love PvP im not one to gank, or over power. I have been playing healer types scence i started playing mmorpgs, so ive gotten good at my job. Alliance arnt half as organized as hored, but they have twice as many (if not more) people as us.

Posted by: Mittisu on June 16, 2007 5:37 AM

here is how it started with me, i first roleld an alli ne warrior till lv 26 bec i didnt even SEE horde there lmao! thats y i also rolled warrior :P it was fun and addicting, once i switched to the horde (due to allies being mean A-holes) i never looked back, i now hav a lv 40 troll hunter, 37 undead lock, 19 BE pally twink, and afew more alts, allianace r immature, and...mean. horde r friendly helpfull, and i LOVE my guild, and i h8 the little fagets that h8 horde bec ther "evil" or "ugly", bec allies r lame and ther actually more evil if u really think about it, (ne magic started the whole war, dwarf diggings, ect) so all u alli loving faggets...STFU, HORDE 4 LIFE!!!!

Posted by: unrealxXx on June 18, 2007 12:50 PM

p.s. i forgot to mention how "honorable" allies r for ganking us in tarren mill and camping for 3 hours... yeah...real sports...

Posted by: on June 18, 2007 12:52 PM

The Allies ganking Tarren Mill are just as "honorable" as the Horde level 70s, who gank for hours in Southshore, Ashenvale, and kill everyone on the shore of Stranglehorn Vale during the Fishing contest. I guess that is the only way the Horde can win ;)
Sorry, I am missing the nobility and maturity of a group that appears to be nothing but bullies, thugs and want to be badasses.

Posted by: Lennie on June 27, 2007 10:08 AM

The Allies ganking Tarren Mill are just as "honorable" as the Horde level 70s, who gank for hours in Southshore, Ashenvale, and kill everyone on the shore of Stranglehorn Vale during the Fishing contest. I guess that is the only way the Horde can win ;)
Sorry, I am missing the nobility and maturity of a group that appears to be nothing but bullies, thugs and want to be badasses.

Posted by: Lennie on June 27, 2007 10:09 AM

There're asshats on both sides of the equation. However, the server population is such that there are more Alliance than Horde, thus there are more Alliance asshats even if the relative distribution is the same.

I leveled Horde on a PVP server at release. Biggest mistake ever, since you couldn't quest in any contested zone without getting repeated camped by level 60s (Nesingwary's, anyone?).

And of course if you call them out on it Alliance gets all defensive and starts denouncing Horde as "evil". As if your average 14-year-old Nelf rogue would perform any act of altruism without being browbeaten into it by committee, or is capable of stringing more than 2 coherent sentences together. The hypocritical dichotomy between what Alliance think they represent and the behavior of most of the playerbase is poetry in the making.

Posted by: Iris on July 6, 2007 2:22 PM

Aha who cares which one is better? Does it really make a difference arguing?

Posted by: Slothy on July 16, 2007 6:59 PM

Most people who posted here seem to have have played on official blizzard servers but since i am studying in my university me and my friends couldnt play on them. So i decided to host a private server.

one thing i can certainly vouch for is population is lower on the horde side. Initially during testing stages we had a few server resets and always alliance number came out higher.

Yes and night elves seem hell popular too. I have read about it on other forums and i read this huge long thread too and i cant explain how but yes horde seems more mature and supportive. I dont know how most of the morons, idiots ended up in alliance but they did.

So after playing with a night elf druid till lvl 40 i switched to orc BM hunter.

I cant comment on age though. All people on my server are 18-21 year olds.

Posted by: Maverick on July 17, 2007 3:30 AM

Originally, I picked the alliance just because one of my close friends started an alliance character. I now regret this decision. The alliance tend to be much less supportive, and dare I say, hateful. So now, I am stuck with 2 level 70s going on 3 because I don't want to completely abandon those characters for horde. Also, i should add that humans are extremely common on the Nathrezim realm, and keep in mind that the Blood Elf zone looks horrid/ You should consider doing a similar test, only compair RP to PVP to RPPVP to Normal realms. It would be interesting to see which one has the advantage.

Posted by: sdfasadfsdf on July 20, 2007 10:51 AM

I play alliance because me friends play it too but i like horde more because they are C00LER

And the horde have so C00L cappitals thats an +

Only a ``little comment:

Don't play druid I have played tauren and nightelf
they are so bad!

Posted by: Anyone on July 21, 2007 7:18 AM

Well, in my opinion, alliance forces are more banned together. I am 14 years old and i have some Humans (Alliance). The towns of Alliance are more beautiful and organised, sth that shows their developed civilisation. But the Horde's towns are not nice. (you must have noticed it!). Even though young players choose the horde. I thing that is because Horde are more violent (or they seem to be like that!), a fact that fits the young people. But except for that, the Alliance are good too.

P.S. Try a human!

Posted by: Gio on July 23, 2007 8:45 AM

I'm all about Horde, and I really don't like the Draenai, but that didn't stop me from helping one do a grinding quest that I also had to do(and I was Undead which was the amazing thing).

If I was an RPer I'd probably discriminate against the Alliance heavily just for being Horde, but alas that is not the case and I usually just treat people the way I want to be treated... although I've stolen the odd mineral node from hapless Draenai. lol

Posted by: Derek on July 23, 2007 10:47 AM

To say "the Horde's towns are not nice" is to ignore the beauty of Silvermoon City. Agreed, the orcs, trolls, tauren, and undead are certainly less westernized; however, to accuse them of being purely violent and disorganized is a failure to notice facts such as the peacefulness of the tauren, the complexity of the Undercity, and the unbreakable brotherhood between the orcs and the Darkspear (similar to the humans/dwarves, actually). Furthermore, to cite the Alliance as the antithesis of violence and savagery clearly overlooks events such as the internment of the Orcs and the slaughter of innocents in Tirisfal by the Scarlet Crusade. In fact, perhaps the most evil being in the game, Arthas Menethril, was to be king of the humans.

Remember, since the third game, the humans of Azeroth have become increasingly to the humans of Earth, and it takes no misanthrope to see the imperfection of our own species.

Posted by: Meta on July 23, 2007 1:09 PM

Quite frankly, the Taureans don't belong in the Horde.

Posted by: Lennie on July 24, 2007 9:27 AM

Yeah, because humans would gladly accept a race of walking cows...

BEEF! It's what's for dinner!

Posted by: Zul'jin on July 24, 2007 11:17 AM

I was actually quite suprised when they added the Draenai to the Alliance.

Purple squids from space, with a side of Soviet Russia. That's what they are to me.

Posted by: Derek on July 24, 2007 2:19 PM

Oh, another cool thing about the Horde is that they're stoners. I'm always finding hookas in Horde towns (there's a hooka in the tavern in Orgimmar where you kill Gamon over and over for fun).

Posted by: Derek on July 24, 2007 7:57 PM

As a level 69 NE druid I am very accepting of Taureans. Most of the time we share Moonglade, Centurion Refuge, etc. without problems. I am over 50 years old in RL, and most of the people in my guild are middle aged or pushing middle age, so that skews many of your stats and misconceptions.

I have been helped on several occassions by Taureans and, even shock of shocks, an undead rogue. And I have helped Horde players with a bad pull. I don't gank and if someone in my group does, then I let them finish the fight they started themselves.

But if you attack me or my friends, watch out ;)

I think working with a Draenai shaman is one of
the best possible combinations for a NE Druid.

Posted by: Lennie on July 27, 2007 7:55 AM

wow this thread is amazing, I found it while google searching "alliance or horde" and am glad i did.I find all of the points so valid in their own rights.This also brings me to a conflict within myself just looking at the character choices ive made and how that might represent me i play a night elf hunter because the shadowmeld racial ability had a great appeal to me although the novelty quickly wore of i played it nonetheless and only to have my resolve to stay ally strengthened after meeting my best pal

Posted by: sleepless in seattle on August 9, 2007 1:29 AM

A few simple points of interest I have to point out, although im not sure they have been said.

I play a 70 NE Warrior on Ner'zhul, and also have a 19, and 29 twink. Im 20 years old so I don't really have the time to play it ALL the time considering RL ordeals, but I find time here and there. Now to the point...

About the age differences on the game, noone can say that each faction has fewer younger generations, or annoying kids. The simple fact is there are a lot of them, and we have to deal with them whatever faction we are on. About the BG's and PvP. A Simple fact, Horde are more strategic in larger numbers, and alliance has no clue what "Kill The Healers" means. Ive seen so many alliance complain about how terrible they lose in BG's, so ive got one phrase for all my fellow allies. "Double-click hold" to move, and thats a start. Now as far as the horde goes (now now, im not nagging any particular person so bite me). The horde (And yes you know you do it) never go out anywhere without 2 people watching your back. Its not a bad thing ill admit, probably a reason your winning and im just trying to find a reason to bitch at you for it, but it makes it look bad on you guys side for you cant win a fight by yourself. Allies do it too but not as much so dont argue with me :/ - Enough rambling though, great game nonetheless.

Posted by: CHerron on August 14, 2007 3:15 AM

Last night I was questing in the Black Temple grounds with a friend, who is a level 70 hunter. I play level 70 NE Druid. 3 Horde players were playing down the opposite side of the ramp and steps making good progress, and being peaceable. An elite pat showed up while they were fighting a group of orcs. We could have let them die, but I have a problem with standing by and letting someone die, who has played fairly, and is putting up a good fight. Yes, we helped them and they thanked us. If only we could just get along.....

Posted by: Lennie on August 16, 2007 9:56 AM

Main: Cithalin, Lvl 50 human rogue. Nazgrel

Meh, I tried horde first, but in the end, i just couldn't stand the starting zones, and I than tried Gnome Warlock and night elf druid. It was pretty fun, but after getting bored, I made half a dozen alts, Eventually trying out rogue. In the past, I had figuered that humans are a pretty balenced race, and since i wanted easy access to Storm wind, I rolled Human. None of my other chars is above 25 now. I have nothing against horde, aside from the abominable starting zones. I do however, hate sublty speced rogues, simply because they, along with marksmanship hunters, are totally broken in pvp.
I chose a pve relm, simply because I don't wanna get ganked. I in general don't like pvp, and generally do solo pve or group pve, with my guildies if possible. Raided barrens a couple times when i was lower leveled, didn't really like it, and i have only wtfpwned someone once. They where flaged, and had just lost a duel. And an instance portal was right there, so i just backstabed an ran into Zf. It was impossible to resist. Aside from that, i generally greet all players with friendly emotes, such as /greet, /hello, or /wave. The majority of horde players respond in kind, with the exception of bloodelves. I would not call my self the most mature person in the world, but i find that most players i meet on both sides are pretty mature.

Posted by: LordAsdf on August 29, 2007 7:57 PM

I also forgot. Since everyone's doing it, i may as well run down the races. This is based on my experiance.

Humans: Don't judge them as racist. The reason they hate the orcs is because it's kind of hard to forgive stuff like destroying a few nations. They make mistakes, but i would like to point out, that excluding outland, the second most common race of nutral npcs, after goblins, are humans. While human npcs outside the alliance tend to be nutral or evil, most of the humans of the alliance are good at heart.

Dwarves: They are a bit foolhardy, and they don't really respect nature as much as they should, but don't bash thier drinking, and don't bash the fact that they seek knowledge of thier pasts. Those who have no past suffer a difficult future.

Gnomes: I really can't say anything much, aside from the fact that they are the most technologlicly advanced playable race.

Night Elfs: While they are steeped in lore, they are a bit racist, and I really don't like the archdruid much. All in all, they mearly seek to preserve nature, and hate the orcs for what they did to the forests. Kinda stuck up....

Draeni (did i spell this right?): Lore is too damn confusing to comment.

Horde: (since i'm ally, i can't comment much)

Orcs: The orcs are having it ruff, but at heart are good peeps. Humans just can't really forgive them. They do, however, hate old horde as much as alliance does.

Trolls: Really just there cause they owe the orcs. A bit quirky, but not evil.

Forsaken: I really don't like them. Lore wise, they are a new race, and they don't seem friendly to anyone.

Tauren: They're nice, and they cenarian circle is my friend, but the idea of a tauren rogue makes me laugh.

Blood elves: Very much like the forsaken, and race formed about the same time. In my experiance, they are the least friendly playerwise. Esp the pallies. Lore is pretty bad.

Posted by: Lord Asdf on August 29, 2007 8:51 PM

My first ever character was a female Blood Elf Warlock named Kaelyndea. I loved the aesthetics and lore of the Blood Elves (hate them or love them, you cannot deny that Silvermoon is a positively gorgeous city), and I also love the lore of the Warlocks and the idea of being a demon-summoner. I played around with it for awhile, but I began to wonder about the grass on the other side and went to playing a Human Paladin, the furthest you can get from a BE Lock (besides maybe a Dwarf Priest or Paladin, but I don't really care for Dwarves). That character became my main (although it now shares that title with a Tauren Shaman I have on an RP-PVP server), mostly because my friends were all Alliance and partly because it was a PvE quest and Alliance PvE was noticeably more streamlined. Westfall is a much more accessible and friendly region than the Barrens or the Ghostlands, for sure.

I like my Alliance characters, but I have made a LOT more online friends on the Horde side. Horde players seem a lot more humble, a lot more mature, and certainly more skilled. My third day of playing the game, I and the rest of my guild attempted a Stormwind raid. I was only level 15, but I seemed to be able to hold my own against the level 20s in the city just using my usual PvE spells. It took about eight Alliance 70s to bring the raid to a screeching halt, and by then the city had marshaled defenses too great to reattempt it, but that was a very memorable moment in my WoW experience.

If I had to go back and choose what to play as a main again, I'd probably try an Undead Mage or a Draenei Warrior.

Posted by: Treima, 17, M on August 29, 2007 9:57 PM

I am replying to Lord Asdf for saying: Blood elves: Very much like the forsaken, and race formed about the same time. In my experiance, they are the least friendly playerwise. Esp the pallies. I am a BE pallie and I have been very kind to people to help them out and on my other account they have been very helpful and kind to me! You can't judge people by what character they pick!

Posted by: Matt on September 2, 2007 1:00 PM

I am replying to Lord Asdf for saying: Blood elves: Very much like the forsaken, and race formed about the same time. In my experiance, they are the least friendly playerwise. Esp the pallies. I am a BE pallie and I have been very kind to people to help them out and on my other account they have been very helpful and kind to me! You can't judge people by what character they pick!

Posted by: Matt on September 2, 2007 1:01 PM

Actually, Matt, I have found that you can really get a good feel for how somebody is going to interact with you based upon their race/class combination, simply because players often make their characters to match their play style, which in turn is a decent indicator of one's personality (at least if you're talking about mains)

My first character was a female BE Warlock. This tells a fair bit about my personality and play style. As a Warlock, I prefer to be actively doing something during a fight (keeping DoTs going). I like having a pet nearby to serve as a tank because I solo FAR more than I group. As a Blood Elf, I enjoy attractive looking characters with a twisted, tragic past that reside within a beautiful city at the far edge of the world.

Now, call me crazy, but I have never met a Blood Elf Paladin that was not utterly self-obsessed. It was dealing with this kind of behavior in Eversong that drove me away from playing my Blood Elf. Night Elf Hunters are right in with them in terms of self-obsession, only worse because they tend to be loot whores and drop from the group in a tizzy if they don't get their way.

Priests on Alliance side and Druids are generally nice folks to a point. Priests on Horde side, for whatever reason, seem to spec Shadow and they vary wildly in personality, from trying to play their class as Warlock-esque as possible to being friendly and not minding that their talent choice forces them to do both healing and ranged DPS with their limited mana pool. Warriors are helpful and generally knowledgable about the game in general (Gnome Warriors are hilarious people, too). Shaman tend to be quite withdrawn, but if you can get anything out of them, they can be very interesting to talk to. Rogues tend to be very vivacious, but also very focused and patient in battle. Mages are the opposite of this, which if you've been in a group with an inexperienced mage you would know (it causes wipes when they can't wait for adequate threat to be generated for them to start dropping massive DPS). This probably stems from their solo experience being a race to get the enemy down before they can melee your character or you run out of mana. Paladins are pretty humble, given the amount of crap they take from azzhats saying "lawl u dun no how 2 tnak u r teh plaet preistzorz!" when they get to around level 55.

I wonder what kind of personality traits will emerge from Death Knight players. I imagine they will probably fit the same profile as Warlocks.

Posted by: Treima on September 4, 2007 7:23 PM

I truly hate the blood elf pally. (bubble...heal..
run over to where my buddies are so the rogue dont kill me)same with all the horde, they all heal and fight in a group(cause they cant beat me 1 on 1)
but enough about how much i hate the horde, im a human rogue (subelety spec)and i often ask my self why i picked that race and class. my answer is my ability (perception) great for seeing other rogues, and when your a rogue the first attack is critical.

Posted by: Freak on September 20, 2007 4:48 PM

I've played both Horde and Alliance, but mainly Horde on a PvP server.

I agree with the comments made by others that the Horde generally has a tougher time of it questing, which results in better skilled players. I have also found in BG that the Horde generally exhibits more teamwork...which is a function of maturity. I have also witnessed more restraint by Horde characters from honorless killings. There is an annoying tendency of Alliance players who, when ganked by a Horde player near or equal to their level, come back with level 70 friends (or log another one of their characters in) to get HONORLESS revenge.

It's called *honorless* for a reason, people. I won't kill someone much lower level than me unless they really ask for it.

For younger players - if you are young and immature, us older players can tell. If you are young and mature, we can't. I have been pleasantly surprised by players I thought to be in their 30's only to find out they were 15. But it is a fact that most of the really obnoxious players are males in the 10-20 range.

I'm 40 by the way. :)

Posted by: Tomorcus on October 10, 2007 8:17 AM

I'm a 45 NE Priest, on the PvE Server Exodar. I have learned what I know about Hordies from Warsong Gulch and Ashenvale.

Orcs(players, not lore): Comparatively few in wsg, but tend to be warlocks, warriors, or rogues. Usually more independent from the rest of the hordies, and as a result can be HKed.

Belfs(players): The worst thing ever. Either pallys or rogues. Either way they know what they are doing and travel in pairs, one to grab the flag and the other to bless the FC and then stall the defenders. Want to have fun killing allies.

Tauren(players): Either travel in groups of 3 or more, when they are warriors or hunters, or with the pallys as druids to capture the flag. Play style is more goal oriented, (getting the flag, where as the belfs are more inclined to farm hks once they have 2 flag captures and the flag at their base for a third).

Undead(players): Rogues, travel alone or in pairs, usually take out the caster/ healer, i.e. me and all my water producing friends. Want to have fun killing. Priests, though, occasionally occur and they tend to be good at healing, from what I can tell. If you are going undead, you are going for Will of the Forsaken, so you are probably not having innocent fun with your main, rather beating up lowbies with your twink.

Trolls: Rogues, shammys, warriors, and mages, all tend to be very good at what they are doing and are skilled in combat at breaking up battles and saving the day. Act as compliments for the people around them. Both plays for the kills and for winning, but usually for winning.

Humans: Seen them in every role, but tend to be mediocre- to pretty good. Unless a twink toon, cant really hold their own against an opponent because the opponent has much more practice at winning pvp battles than they do.

Gnomes: Mages, warlocks, rogues, and warriors. The first two, mages and warlocks, tend to be lone guns, running across the field as cannon fodder, or a committed defender(esp. the warlocks), but the rogues tend to stick with the group or defend, thankfully, and are very good at it. The warriors are the same, but they are rare. Invariably, though, they are very skilled at not dieing(mainly because they have been taunted into insanity and have a bone to pick with that tauren who played soccer with them).

Dwarves: Hunters, priests, pallys. I'm always thankful to see another priest, esp. one committed to being a healer. Honestly I think a healer is better for the course of the battle than a shadow priest, but that is just me. Hunters merely compliment the NE's who are already there. Pallys are warriors with buffs. Team players, but not usually a race chosen for twinking.

Night Elves: Hunters, druids. Yeah, NEs are just hunters. Usually about 2-3 NE hunters per battleground. Great at filling up space and for increasing overall hp of your party(which is good). One can slow down a zerg rush of tauren/belfs for a couple seconds, which can be of value when waiting for a rez. Lone wolfs though. Tend not to cluster with anyone, except for the commited defenders. Druids, though, are another matter. Invaluable to a team,and usually good team players. Early on they go aggro, but after the first horde flag capture or so they can switch to defence without being told to, which is nice. Good abilities for catching flag runners as well.

Draenai(?): Little bit of everything, and go both offence and defence willingly. Very few priests though. Shammys are a nice blessing for the alliance.

Horde: Travel in groups with a purpose in mind, like getting a flag, for example, or camping the graveyard. Its not so much the intercommunication between the horde, so much as the same-old, same-old. They've done this so many times everyone knows the drill. (Assaut base, kill healer, druid grab flag, shapeshift, blessing of freedom, blessing of protection, run flag while group occupies allies)

Alliance: More disorganized because we dont have ingraned into out very marrow what to do. More likely to assult base with 2 people rather than three or four, to attack more people rather than concentrating on one, to think the priest is healing when infact the druid or shamman is. Knows how to gank though because that is the only way we can get kills. With more practice and more victories, and a few more level 19s, 29s, 39s, etc, we might even out the win ratio.

As a side effect of the Alliances disorganized nature, if the horde flag does leave the base, all the people mid-field tend cluster around it, meaning we have a better chance to keep it to our flag stand than the horde, who waste their people on the assult and then let the FC run it alone. This leads to more captures, though, because the horde lets very few flags out of the base.

Now as for lore:

Humans: Humans are humans. There are some, like who the pallys are actually supposed to be, who are paragons of virtue. There are some, SI:7, the warlocks, and people who would collaberate with Venture Co., who would be driven for power. As mentioned, the SI:7, warlocks, and Venture Co. people would outnumber the Light pallys and priests, and go to war with the dwarves, gnomes, high elves, and each other, had the orcs not come along. They are trying to do more good now after the 3rd war,as can be seen in the Argent Dawn, but still there are those who would seek to profit from the misery of others.

More later...

Posted by: Thornfletcher on October 12, 2007 10:10 PM

Orcs: A race with its roots on Draenor before the Draenai arrived, whom were followed after a few hundred years by the eredar and their masters. The Draenai and the orcs origanally had a peaceful relationship, where they were on speaking terms and traded regularly. However, when the demons arrived, instead of assult the Light-weilding draenei directly, they corrupted the shamanistic orcs Ner'zul and Gul'dan and used them to corrupt the entire orcish race. The orcs built an army and shattered the draenei, using powers gained not from their elemental roots but from shadow magic. Then the Horde eventually went to war against the humans, via the Dark Portal. The rest is history (wiped out the humans, were crushed by humans, attacked again, were crushed, captured, rose up and escaped to Kalimdor, rediscovered shamanistic roots from the Tauren/Thrall. Deal with Jaina and Night Elves, and help wipe out Archimond the eredar, followed by pushing the Scourge out of Kalimdor. [What did happen to the Scourge in Kalimdor?] The Horde and the Alliance then enjoyed a few moments of relative peace before going to war again because of hatered caused by mistrust on both sides(you cant tell me that the orcs were willing to forgive and forget after three wars when the humans weren't).)
The point here is to say that before the demon corruption the orcs were inately good, or at least neutral, for the Light-honoring Draenei would not trade with a race that was evil. After the 2nd war, Thrall returned the horde to its pre-demon levels of goodness. This was somewhat marred by Grom Hellscream when he became corrupt again by demons and killed Cenarius (as in Cenarion Circle) a demigod honored by the Night Elves and the Tauren, who helped fight against the Burning Legion and is patron of all druids and is the son of Elune. I have a feeling that this is the reason that the Night Elves did not join the Horde and did join the Alliance, because they wanted help defending Ashenvale from the Warsong Clan, which they are no longer able to defend due to the severe drop in population in the 3rd war. The Orcs hate the Night Elves for denying them the lumber of Northern Kalimdor, and the Night Elves hate the Orcs more because they killed, for one half of the NE population, their god, and the other half, the child of their god. The orcs are like the humans, where on one hand they are simply minding their own buisness, wanting the best for their people, trying not to die in trying times, while on the other hand trying to get over many generations of demonic possession and losing people to the temptation of that power (warlocks and all of the cults everywhere, which are all seemingly headed by orcs). Not as much is known about the Orcs and whether they would have tried to conquer the draenei on their own had the demons not corrupted them, but my guess is that they would have, given the fact that they were sufficiently war-like to be used in the firstplace by the Legion. The orcs are as bad as the humans when it comes to strengths and weaknesses. Yet I see that Thrall having left Theramoore alone for so long, given that it is on his doorstep and is on the other half of the continent from Darnassus and the Exodar, is a sign that the trials that this race has gone through has made the orcs more willing to accept their neighbors, even if they are not on speaking terms.

Posted by: Thornfletcher on October 13, 2007 12:52 AM

if you think horde is younger then alliance your fukin retarded, alliance is filled with little kiddies who get their mommie to buy wow, all they do is gank 1 horde with 5 alliance and think theyre the sht fuck you assholes pce out.

Posted by: allianceeatssht on October 26, 2007 2:58 AM

Look guys yes i agree alliance are mostly filled with younger players but all the younger alliance never level past 20 i am 18 and i go to a gaming center sometimes if my computer at home is broke/internet is down/or generally just messing me around and there is a 15 year old who made a twink i said that i would help him in bg with my twink [warrior crusader and lifesteal ftw] and i saw that he had made a gnome rogue[how original] i asked him why and he said the typical gnomes are small and harder to click on thing but there was another kid 14 years old who had started playing wow about 2 weeks earlier and he had a 42 hunter with one epic weapon and mostly blues and with 800g also 2 mounts and in a good guild doing raids often and also a 29 paliden tht he was leveling to help him guild as it had no healers or weak healers and a 19 twink who was unbelieveably good so i say to you now ARE ALL YOUNGER PLAYERS NOOBS , I THINK NOT !!!!!

Posted by: I'mAllianceButiAintNoNoob on October 28, 2007 7:04 PM

I think it's fantastic that this study is being conducted. One of the most fascinating aspects of World of Warcraft for me is the psychology behind the Horde and Alliance mentalities.

I personally would like to see factors such as real life race, religion and sexual orientation weighed in. It's been pointed out numerous times on this forum that the Horde mentality is largely about joining together through the common bonds of living as outsiders.

I believe the Alliance has a much higher concentration of Christian, Western European heterosexuals than the Horde. The Alliance, for example, has all Christian guilds, where the Horde has nothing of the sort.

My family is of Eastern European descent. I don't know a single Eastern European who identifies as an Alliance player. According to the mythos of the world, the Alliance has a history of sticking its enemies in camps. Eastern Europeans simply are not comfortable with that sort of thing, and I imagine neither are a lot of the "fringe" groups in this country (USA).

The project is probably too far along now to introduce three new factors. Nevertheless, it's something I'd love to see explored.

I play on the Rexxar (PvE) server.

Posted by: sprocket on November 8, 2007 12:12 PM

im a lv 64 druid on the duskwood server (horde of course) and i totallty agree with the statement that the alliance are all kids..i logged onto an ally char for fun and went to trade chat. there was a gang of ppl baggin on some dude for askin where the AH was in If..pretty gay if you ask me...FOR THE HORDE!!!

Posted by: Animalia on November 28, 2007 10:17 AM

Just because bad experiences have been had in which young alliance noobs are being rude or otherwise incompetent does not mean that these players represent anything more than an extremely small part of the alliance player base. I have always been an alliance player and have seen an extremely small percentage of immature newbie players. It is funny that the posts complaining about alliance players are coming from those that use horde and so have very little contact with the large percentage of alliance players on their same server.

-Josh (Lightning's Blade)

Posted by: Joshua B on November 29, 2007 6:00 PM

I play Alliance, a 70 NE Hunter and I have to say I really regret this now. There was a time when I felt very strongly that the Alliance were the side for me, feeling that the races of the horde were your typical, savage and evil races. Being a Lord of the Rings fan, this came naturally to me. I always enjoyed playing Agile, elven archers. I was disappointed...the elves, more muscular and far taller than humans? how can this be...what crap. My first indication that the Alliance weren't the best players came on my fist venture from Shadowglen into the vaster forest areas of Teldrassil; the amount of Night Elf corpses littering the ground were phenomenal and I couldn't understand how they could be such disgraceful quitters that they would log out the second they felt the sting death! (Perhaps stupidly) I was greatly saddened when I learned more of Warcraft's vast spanning lore...Atrocities commited by the alliance? The Horde not really EVIL at all! Victims of circumstance and discrimination...outsiders. I tried to find ways that the Horde were really the evil ones but no, their values are respectable and they live peacefully. I was astounded by the immaturity and abuse that streamed out of every chat channel the alliance had access to. My perfectly reasonable questions being met with answers such as "oMG Nubbcake, L2P WTF?!?!" Initially I assumed it would be the same situation on the horde side too, that is of course, until I entered my first few battlegrounds. The horde thrashed us every time without fail and there was always one alliance player calling the rest of the team a bunch of noobs. I always took sympathy and tried to help members of the opposite faction who were in trouble, helping with that troublesome elite or taking that add off their hands and communicating to them using friendly emotes such as /wave and /smile, they always responded likewise with some enthusiasm though the unfair and honourless tactics of other alliance chain-gankers was quite disgusting. I finally decided that my alt would have to be a horde character when an orc passed by my hunter in Searing Gorge. I'd pulled an elite I needed for a quest, hoping I could take him, I was close to succeeding but he had adds and I was close to death. I appealed to the orc with a /beg macro and he stared at me for about 2 seconds in all his epic armour and glory, then with a roar charged into battle and slew the beasts. I knelt before him and /thanked him, Promising myself always to remember the generosity of the horde. My Tauren will venture out into the world with intent to aid it's denizens...always. Do yourself a big favour; Join the honourable, compassionate and mighty Horde! FOR THE HORDE!

Posted by: Life Debt on December 6, 2007 11:57 AM

Oh my. What a noble bunch of piffle!
Been to Astranaar? Westfall? Auberdine? Seen the noble level 70 Horde players there? Yeah, a real example of maturity and understanding.

Posted by: Lennie on December 7, 2007 2:23 PM

To me it looks like all 5 are higher for Horde e.g. -0.02 > -.14. What do the numbers in brackets mean?

"if you think horde is younger then alliance your fukin retarded, alliance is filled with little kiddies who get their mommie to buy wow, all they do is gank 1 horde with 5 alliance and think theyre the sht fuck you assholes pce out."

Real mature... the irony is too much, I LOL'd.

Posted by: mage5625 on December 7, 2007 6:06 PM

It states that the average Alliance age is higher, when in reality it's counting the age of the parents who purchased the account for their kids, the the childs age.

Age is maturity. As a result of getting a job/career, you become more goal oriented and you work substantially better with teams simply because you do it every day you go to work. Horde also score higher in Advancement, Competition, and Mechanics because they go to work every day where those qualities will get you a promotion.

On the other hand, teenage children have raging hormones, have something to prove, and are ignorant of the world outside of the one they have created for themselves. As for the cruel nature of corpse camping and taunting, we all know that the most cruel creature in the world is a child. (I was the same way when I was a kid.)

When I made the choice of horde and alliance, I chose horde for the same reason that most others have joined the horde. The horde at it's most basic mechanics are more like the real world than the alliance. The alliance look too "good" for the general adult, and thus they choose horde.

Posted by: RabidCrab on December 8, 2007 4:06 AM

So the level 70 Horde players who make Astranaar, Westfall, Southshore and the other Alliance starting areas murder zones for hours on end, what is their excuse? An outpouring of maturity? This list seems to overlook that behavior or merely condones it.
I don't condone the behavior of level 70 Alliance players, who make crossroads a living hell, there is no gold or honor in that.

Posted by: Lennie on December 12, 2007 6:13 AM

Lennie..."all is fair in love and war" I dunno who said that! My horde 70 UD priest used to come to defend. I apologize for the Wow singularity in this post. It is a sore point for those trying to quest, when the other faction kills your NPC's, BUT...I also think it is silly for all the lowbies to "flag" in those times...and then whine about getting killed. If you NOT whine about the Alliance killing you. about bossy teachers in forums? This whining dynamic is a prevalent one ingame, just as in RL. Not trying to put you down at all Len...really..just have to take your lumps. For the Horde..and if it means a death or two...that's what we do! I have stopped going to fight there..because it is so silly seeing level 20 players flagged to fight level 70's. It seems to be an attempt to get attention. Get to the you can have revenge in the arena. emote sigh and go kill some gazzelles. FUN not hell!

Posted by: Zermata on December 12, 2007 8:55 AM

You are correct. All is fair in love and war. If I wanted to be elsewhere I would have chosen a PvE server. Now, the reason I spend most of my time in battlegrounds and arena is to kill the Horde. Besides advancing my level 70 NE Druid's gear, killing the Horde is my big motivator in this game now. I am sure that this is my motivation because in Bleeding Hollow you deal with a Horde element that is largely thugs.

Posted by: Lennie on December 12, 2007 2:36 PM

I am about to start and I think that horde are definetly the best, they have a great feeling to them, they have an honourable feeling to them. Personally i think the hardest thing to choose is class. I would like to do troll rogue but I would like some insight on what a good and fun class would be and what would be a good race combination? i hope to start soon but I am still unsure which would be a good class that would be both fun and good?
Thanks people

Posted by: meister on December 20, 2007 7:05 PM

Before I start my real comment I'd like to say how great I think this is, I was on google and I searched "Alliance and Horde" in hopes of finding aditional Lore about both but this is way better, it's also great to see well constructed opinions from both sides (Except for the usual "AhAahahAAHHHAAHH aalianse/hrode is N00bzorz") like the ones you are used to hearing on youtube Raid Videos.
I started playing WoW this Summer, a friend of mine started playing and although I was a Guild Wars player I though I'd give it a go, I've been playing since then and I love it, and one of the things that makes me love WoW is the Horde/Alliance conflict and the caracteristics and mentality of each of them. I'm a proud Alliance player, I've never tried a Horde character and I probably never will, for the simple reason of loving what the Alliance stands for, and this is the part where I talk about some comments that, although behind well constructed, annoyed me. I play a Human Rogue and many comments here about humans annoy me, lots of people acuse Humans of being racist, ignorant, ect. Then how come Stormwind is the City where almost ALL races live in harmony, (think of Stormwind as New York City, just an example). I read the existing lore about basicly every other race, on the Alliance and the Horde side and the reason I chose to play a Human was their lack of perfection, of course some of their methods are brutal, of course many known villains in WoW are human, but when everyone is in trouble who is it that sacrifices their own troops and well-being, goes into the fray and ends up saving the day? Humans!
Like their lore says, The Alliance has always stood as a Bastion of Good, now I'm not naive to the point of saying things are either Black or White, there is a grey you know...The Alliance may have taken actions that can be described as brutal, but it was always done to ensure both the way of life and security of it's citizens.
Another reason that makes me play Alliance is their society, I was never the tough, muscled and strong big bad guy in real life and as such, a society that goes by the "Survival of the Fittest" motto and philosophy goes totally against who I am and what I stand for, the Alliance society is both more peaceful, artistic, industrial, and commercial. And they value brains over brawn and please, any Horde defensors that read this, don't bother denying it, you know it's true, it doesn't have to be necessarily a bad thing I mean you ARE stuck in a harsh environment but I just hate that kind of societies, it's both a fact and an opinion, please deal with it. I won't do the "Racial Rundown" because others have done it and it would just take too long, I'd rather explain the reasons of why I think the Alliance was the best option for me. Although the races are very important, one of the many reasons I would never feel confortable while playing the Horde are the bonds between it's races, to me, the only two Horde races who are really united and share the same goals are the Orcs and Tauren, in my opinion Trolls are just paying a Life Debt, the Undead aren't even "friends" of the rest of the Horde, they entered the Horde through the "The enemies of my enemies, are my friends" kind of mentality, and it's a fact that they'd betray the Horde if it means obtaining the power to vanquish...Whatever they're trying to vanquish:The Scourge, Humans, ect. Of course I have a special dislike and hate for this Race due to what they did and do to Humans, I mean, those were our lands guys, not cool. They criticize the Scarlet crusade, but if you lived all your life in a beautiful land with your family, your kids, your farm and suddenly the Undead came and killed your family and stole your lands, wouldn't YOU be fanatic in getting them back? I know I would...
The Blood Elves don't like the rest of the Horde, it's another fact, one of those things you can't deny, their reasons for getting Horde Membership are the same as the Undead to me.
Finally, take a look at the name of both Factions, "The Horde" and "The Alliance". An Horde was always linked to a massive band of un-organized barbarians, the concept of the word I mean, while an Alliance is more a group of organized cultures who work towards a common goal, every race has a part in the Alliance, the gnomes, which many people (for unkown reasons to me, I think they're a great race) hate, are the major technological suppliers of the Alliance, the dwarves are the ones who USE the tecnhology in Battle alongside with Humans who face the physicly far stronger Horde in the frontlines using their courage.
This is how I end my comment, I hope you have found it usefull or entertaining in some way or the other and I hope you share your thoughts with me.
I'm 15 years old in Real Life.

Posted by: Luis on December 21, 2007 5:32 AM

female, 24, Bachelor's degree in Psychology
It's probably not a good idea to generalize. There are always exceptions to the rules. I have not joined WoW yet. I am currently in the process of deciding if I should. I know a couple of women my age that are already playing. One of them has 3 characters, I don't think she has a faction preference.
Something that you must consider when looking at the statistics is that this is survey based. The information doesn't come from Blizzard. A good way to see that is by the small sample size. So the argument that the age is skewed according to parents purchasing the accounts is invalid. However this is a survey. Surveys tend to require a very strong significance value to cover for the errors in the participants' answers, either lying, misunderstanding the question, etc... So while some of the things I saw in relation to gender seemed to apply to me, I couldn't say the same for the rest. Also player experience is very different according to the server. I am currently in Japan, I probably won't be on any of the same servers as the one's discussed here. *shrug*

Posted by: kruegs on December 24, 2007 12:57 AM

does the Alliance have a motto?

Posted by: Rulesk on December 24, 2007 11:47 AM

According to wikiwow the Alliance's motto is: "Long live the Alliance"

Posted by: Luis on December 29, 2007 7:32 AM

I think people should make up there minds and stop arguing about it, it's what suits you as both a player and person. I am starting warcraft and the hardest thing isn't actually choosing the race or alliance/horde, it's choosing the class, who here on this forum spent ages deciding which class to become I know i did. Male 12
P.S.Can you give me some insight on a class that is funner than tauren shaman & dwarf warrior.

Posted by: meister on December 29, 2007 4:28 PM

Heres a summary:
Only truly evil race is the undead, the only reason they were in the horde because it was either alliance and horde, and well... undead sound more horde like. The humans and Ne can't get over there history. They think that orcs are evil despite them being under the bloodlust and knowing that they have no control over what they are doing. Also when hellscream entered the forest the orcs had no idea the elves were there and the elves just attacked them. Besides they were just trying to survive. Humans and elves are the problem. They also drag other races into it. But in the end who cares, it's a game, not like it effects you. In conlcusion,
Human/Night elf: ignorant
Orcs: Fine
Tauren/Trolls: Owe a life debt to the orcs
Blood elves/ Draenie/ Gnomes: should have never got involved with any of them
Dwarves: Shouldn't dig up other peoples land just to find a bit of history (lives for history hmm... hard decision)
The decision should be what suits. But I think 2 harder questions are which class is the best and which race is the best maybe they should do something like that.
Male 16

Posted by: ally/hordy on January 4, 2008 11:11 PM

alliance or horde?
I don't think the lore should effect what faction you should choose or whether there good or bad. For EXAMPLE the alliance as many of you have stated is evil this is not necessarily true but it's an example, so lets say there lore says that they are evil. That doesn't mean you're going to act evil just because your history is evil.
But if you still want to decide between good and evil undead is evil, tauren is good.
But the point is just because your faction is evil doesn't mean you have to be. Thats why as someone proclaimed earlier on that it is not wise to make generalizations.
Also the class might effect your choice, if you want to be in the horde but say you want to be paladin you will probably change class or faction.
In this thread there has been many mentioning s of the age. This is probably not true, the reason you notice 10 year olds playing is that you tend to notice bad things. It' like someone who likes chocolates but hates nuts. He gets chocolates with nuts but the nuts are ever so small yet he will notice it more than the chocolate.
Man that was long sorry for the examples example: chocolates and nuts, sorry there I go again.
This was the best thread ever.

Posted by: wowppl on January 5, 2008 5:50 PM

ok heres the deal, alliance has better racial traits than hord and for some reason does better rouge and dps wise. hord is better when they use warriors and hunters because f there racial traits. aside from the undead all other rouges or dps's suck on hord. the only good pvp alliance is good at is warsong gulch because of the rouges. all other pvps require killing things and players witch the hord is good at. alliance is amazing at raiding tho
EG: X-roads
Camp taraijo
hord on the other hand, is not very expearenced in raiding.
in my oppinion the hord is better because of the places they have to train in, alot of there quests require group work and eventually it becomes a habit for them to talk over a plan and tell other people what to do next.
huntingkill-silvermoon-WoW find me

Posted by: will on January 9, 2008 3:51 PM

i haven't started yet will but from what my friends have told me, the alliance is't very good, this could be that they are horde but i doubt from reading this. horde and alliance, easy choice, race and class HARD choice, istraight away knew who i was gonna be (horde) and now i have to choose class and race, it'd be helpful for some advice about that.
Soon to start wow,played warcraft though.

Posted by: pop on January 10, 2008 1:30 AM

Look dudes it's up to you who you choose to be who cares whether the alliance is full of noobs, as some of you have said, don't got to the alliance then, same with the horde.

Posted by: wow dude on January 19, 2008 1:33 AM

Alliance racials are good for PVE. Horde racials are good for PVP.(Undead will of the forsaken, Blood Elves mana burn, ect).

Personally, I like the horde alot better than the alliance. Alot of the alliance on Durotan, come attack the major cities, then leave when they get beaten.

Both sides have noobs. But my experience, is the alliance have alot of younger players, that have huge egos, because they have a lvl 70 paladin with epix.

If you want a more mature side, go with the horde. I like my horde characters.

Posted by: K. on January 19, 2008 11:26 PM

HORDE, they own. The tauren are supposed to be the best faction for horde and the dwarves for the alliance, I'm talking class/race combo and stat wise as you might say. But I love the horde. Some of my friends play the alliance, only night elves though, but I don't like them, there supposed to be real easy to kill.

Posted by: abc on January 20, 2008 2:01 AM

Also I think i got all the class race thing for each class. Warrior Tauren, Shaman Tauren, Orc Rgoue, Undead priest, Dwarven hunter, warlock i think orc, paladin human,mage gnome but i h8 gnome i have to admit they're the best for the clas i think, if you think i gto anything wrong correct me please.

Posted by: abc on January 20, 2008 2:06 AM

You know about some of you saying that the best class for hunter is night elf, no way.

Posted by: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz on January 20, 2008 2:09 AM

you're missing druid abc which i think is night elf

Posted by: zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz on January 20, 2008 2:10 AM

Over looks i dunno, it seems night elf hunter is the best for looks for race/ class. Warrior I always like the draenie. Mage got to be blood elf. Shaman tauren.Druid night elf. Paladin maybe draenie or human. Priest, maybe undead. Rogue troll no doubt about it.

Posted by: LOL :-) :^$ on January 20, 2008 2:15 AM

IRL 26 female

My current mostly-played characters are a 70 human rogue and a 45 draenei priest. I ended up on Alliance because of a friend who played; however, had I learned more about the game background/cultures of each I probably would have ended up Horde. Now I play my Alliance characters primarily, due to social obligations and whatnot, but also have a troll priest and a tauren shaman (on an RP server no less, whereas my Alliance characters are on normal) that I play fairly regularly. I like the tribal/shamanistic feel of taurens, orcs, and trolls--I rolled a blood elf but ended up abandoning it simply due to their general culture. (And coming from someone who studies world religions in relation to anthropology, Alliance almost looks more like the "bad guys" to me...)

Posted by: ij on January 25, 2008 5:44 AM

Best class for hunter isnt night elf i think sinse if u r useing a orc or troll u got bether raceials than the night elf got even tho invi is a very god raceial.
I play shaman mostly tho but got a 30 hunter(orc) and have played on my m8s troll hunter(70).
I ended upp with horde cause of their strength and the fact that i hade like 5 friends that played horde allready and got 60s and 70s.
even thos i hadent have anny friends playing horde i think i would have choosen horde annyway cause of tauren shaman and the fact that there was no shaman on allianse the time i started and that the horde owned the allianse in a time with pwnage shamans killing allianse paladins.

Posted by: WOW m8 on January 25, 2008 10:47 AM

Hello, i agree with the wow m8 about night lf being th worst fro hunter, they may look cool and all but they have such a majo disadvantage. The thing i h8 most is that the class that looks the best often is really bad. I have a tauren warrior because, well... theylok awesome and there stats own, to e honest i don't really care about there lore, it's all made up and stuff and it doesn't reallly matter, ok it feels good t thin that your fighting fro the good side and all but still wh cares.
lplplp, tauren warior just started

Posted by: lplplplp on January 25, 2008 8:33 PM

thats a lie horde dont do that crap horde seem to act just like allys but they win more simply and also this is a damn game why the hell does this shit matter damn?

Posted by: Appleman on January 27, 2008 12:09 AM

i agree with appleman hwy does the lore matter after all it is just a game.

Posted by: w on January 29, 2008 12:20 AM

ppl i don't know why it matters what you choose it what you choose why does it matter?

Posted by: on January 31, 2008 1:20 AM

Best hunter race is troll. Rock on.

Posted by: on February 1, 2008 7:34 PM

the horde r all older from my exp. the horde has more mature people playing when i rolled an alliance most of the people i was talking were 10-16 and when i rolled horde i found it beter cause the people where much more mature and their ages where about 18-30 but not to say there are not little kids on both sides

Posted by: nico on February 3, 2008 2:57 AM

Alliance have hero mentality, everyones an individual so naturally when Horde side has a non heroic mentality, theyre going to win the mass pvps. Thats why ALliance always wins AV because Alliance have no issue with putting aside their heroicness to down a mob boss. If Alliance could cultivate a singular mentality like the Horde naturally do, We'd dominate every BG.

Posted by: on February 11, 2008 12:45 PM

In my opinion:

Alliance v Horde as far as comments about horde being the older/mature crowd, I think holds weight. I think kids naturally side with Alliance due to the Good v Evil angle. How many kids did you know growing up that wanted to be the "Bad guys"?

As far as horde always winning or whatever, I have personally witnessed that the horde do seem to be able to get random people together to accomplish objectives, (i.e. Halaa), Aliance will spam chat about needing more, and I can honestly say I couldn't be bothered to help sometimes, but the horde seem to end up pulling the whole server to come out for it.

I think this is due to the horde having a rallying cry, "For the Horde" which to me says drop what yoru doing and contribute...the Ally's don't have a rallying cry or anything like that.

Again, just my thoughts on it.

Posted by: Dewy on February 12, 2008 8:31 PM

Hello my name is Nick and I am glad I stumbled on to this very interesting subject. Personally I chose Alliance not because their stereotype is the "good" but because I like NightElves. I have always been a nature loving guy and I know the Tuaren are the same but NightElves seem more elegant to me.
I want to clear up how people are saying NightElves are "racist" or "irogant". You have to remember how the demons almost destroyed their homeland long ago aided by their own queen! Its only natural to be warry of demonic magic after that. Before the orcs ever entered Kalimdor they were concerned with themselves and banished the Highbourne. All they want to do is provide what is best for Kalimdor.
The NightElves first meet with the Horde would be when they killed Cenarion...not the best way to start terms, keep in mind that was like killing God to them! I know some people say that they were overreacting when Grom cut a couple of trees down( actually it was more like 50000 lumber or something like that) btw Grom killed Cenarion by taking up the demonic powers again even after the witchdocter told him the pool was tainted. personally i think the Orcs were being to brutal and disrespectful cutting down trees in someone elses land(i think this is a perfect example of pioneers destroying the indians land) on the other hand i think it was a bit naive for Cenarion to challenge him : / maybe he was just trying to protect what he loves
well the NightElves at the time didnt know what the hell was going on, undead were raging across the land, strangers were invading "orcs and humans", and their deepest threat which they thought was killed came back, the burning legion. so dont take it personal that we attack you Horde because we "NightElves" also attacked and killed the Alliance. Nightelves even came to an agreement that both factions should help each other to survive the burning legion. eh after Archimonde died i guess things fell apart, probably because the issue of Cenarion being dead still upset some Nightelves and the Horde was still chopping away! proof is warsong gulch! you are still cutting even after what happened? is there no way to satify your lumber needs or is this the industrial age for the Horde? i guess the humans were pretty nuetral with Nightelf beliefs so they paired with the Alliance.
so dont take it personal we have suffered a lot in 2,500 years trusting only ourselfves and the nature that has helped and surrounded us. we hate the Horde just as any other threat to our homeland. yah im obsessed with this game but if you think about it its very political and amusing on a saturday night alone XD apologies for the typos im only 15 and dont care for grammar much
i have a lot more to disguse about wow because weather you believe it or not i like the Undead ^_^
just like to say alliance and horde have the same amount of noobs and do you realize how immature it is to talked about who is more mature? XD
maybe another time, keep it cool to all races and factions ~_^

Posted by: Nick on March 2, 2008 12:01 AM

please dont call undead evil you would be alittle upset to if you were dead, look at all the races and you will see they are doing what they thinks is best for them. it just stands by your moral and political values. dont just pick races for their looks but also their views unless your a mindless imbecile who wants to play all day to look the coolest. all im saying is look into your characters life alitte and it raises some interesting conversations, its expecialy fun to talk about them here :)

Posted by: Nick on March 2, 2008 12:12 AM

19 Male

Level 66 Human warrior

Relatively speaking I'm still new to World of Warcraft. I started playing after talking with a good friend of mine, who had been playing for a while. When first making my character I knew I wanted to be Alliance, simply because my friend was. I was not aware of the whole Ally Vs. Horde one side absolutely hates the other. When picking the race, I took the lore samples that that come with trying to decide your character. After reading the human's troubles and their place in the Alliance I thought, "Sweet, I'll go human."

Picking a class was a real stumper for me. After narrowing down my choices between Warrior and Paladin I decided to ask another friend of mine what he thought. This friend was a bonafide Horde at heart and basically told me what he knew from fighting human warriors/paladins (he himself being an Undead Warlock) He told me that, contradictory to what I had thought, Paladin was probably the most popular Alliance class. I didn't want to add to the abundance so I picked Warrior.

Life as a warrior has been pretty rough. To start off, I had no idea how dungeon raids (instances) worked. I would get in a group and somebody would say, "Yay a tank." And I had no idea what they were talking about. I just happened to do good at tanking on accident. Eventually I picked up the shield (previously was using a two handed sword) and officialy becoming the tank I am now.

When it comes to battlegrounds is when things become the stereotypical "Alliance are children." And to an extent, I will agree with that, or at least they are child like in their decision making. As stated before in numerous posts, Alliance just doesn't have the drive to unify for a common goal. Whereas (I also play a Tauren Druid level 35) the horde seem to have this mentality of "oneness". Horde are more open to suggestions and tactics and easily play around with the Alliance, no problem. Suggest an idea on Alliance bg chat and you get 5 messages of, "l2p nubz" and will continually perform the same actions over and over with no indication of success.

So I believe that the idea of Alliance consisting of more children would stem from poor battle tactics and the ignorance to adapt. When in reality the child/adult ratio is fairly even when you look at statistics.

Drac-Eredar server.

Posted by: Zack on March 3, 2008 5:48 PM

That's true I wish that Alliance would get along better. What I usually do is message someone to help me guard and we stick together for the game. What absolutely drives me insane is that Alliance never sticks together. Yes I know this is a stereotype but it's very true. The only suggestion that I have for BG players on Alliance is pick a class that benefits itself. Examples are Hunters, Paladins, and Rogues.

Posted by: Nick on March 4, 2008 4:59 PM

I like the Horde better.

I looked at all the alliance characters (no offense) and they were all just pretty boys, to me the Horde has better people, I have a level 70 troll priest and a lvl 66 tauren druid.

Ans TBH I think the horde has more mature people

Posted by: E-ze on March 11, 2008 11:07 PM

Yea and each side has there fall points and there share of evil deeds.

Cept the cow people there completely innocent =)))

Posted by: E-ze on March 11, 2008 11:10 PM

wheither you like horde or allaince really depends on which side the first character you like is on. my first character was a human pally. i didn't like him so i killed that guy and made an orc warrior. i screwed him up and just deleted him instead of fixing him. after that i made a NE hunter...who a hated with a passion (i just dislike the NE starting place). the fourth character i made was a tarune hunter(me gusta boomstick) who i loved playing as. after playing as him i know play mostly horde.

and as far as battle cries go, the allies have two on the Arathor server "For the Alliance!" and "The punting stops here(gnome only)" on my server the horde tends to win Arthai Basin but warsong is even.

the whole horde vs alliance thing seems stupid to me. they are just groups of pixels moving around in the end. i tend to play as horde characters more then ally only due to the fact that i know the horde better.

Posted by: Gnomenader on March 12, 2008 7:16 PM

the basic problem is that alliance sucks my balls, and horde prety much pwn all the sissy gay alliance kids right? so like horde pwns and alliance sucks, big balls


Posted by: on March 14, 2008 10:32 AM

Typical Horde.

Posted by: Lennie on March 24, 2008 8:26 AM

Yeah, but alot of Alliance say that too.
I'm Horde and find that kinda talk annoying and immature.

Posted by: Elmo on March 25, 2008 1:48 PM

stop arguing!!! Geez whether you want to choose allaince or horde is up to you, don't argue about it theres no point, in the end it's down to you, it doesn't matter what other people think.

Posted by: meister on March 25, 2008 6:46 PM

Actually... it does matter what others think. The majority of your actions are, in some way or another, determined by how you want yourself to look.
Anyways, it's not who to choose. It's just a discussion of possible reasons for the general perception that Horde win more in PvP than Alliance overall.

Posted by: Elmo on March 26, 2008 12:45 AM

Sorry for double post, but it is to do with that guy who was exclaiming that he gets fellatio from Alliance. Instead of claiming that Alliance suck, wouldn't it be even more flattering to yourself to say that it's you being pro, and not your opponents sucking which makes you good? Because if you are supposedly beating absolute noobs... it doesn't indicate any degree of skill at all.

Posted by: Elmo on March 26, 2008 12:49 AM

I think each race is beautiful in its own way.
of course they have their pros and cons but thats what makes the game all the more enjoyable.

I play a female night elf,druid, and not for the sheer fact that they are the signature "whores" of World of Warcraft, but because of their connection with nature and the plant and animal worlds. I just think its awesome.

I definitely think the class and race you pick represents what kind of fantasy and what kind of alternate personality you like to induldge in.

And theres no need to state that one race is simply better than the other because its a matter of mere opinion.

each and every race offers an incredible vast background and classes to match.

Posted by: Recoy on March 30, 2008 4:37 PM

Horde is a lot more mature then Alliance. Trust me. I've been through it all, my friend. I've gotten sick and tired of Alliance just for the reasoning of it being full of children. Adults, choose Horde if you don't want to deal with children all day.

Posted by: Chanel on March 31, 2008 12:12 PM

Re "horde is a lot more mature than alliance".
I can´t confirm this at all.
Played alliance during both betas, rolled horde after release and switched to alliance about half-way.
3 years after the release I have 3 lvl 70 horde chars and 3 lvl 70 alliance chars and you encounter pretty much the same behaviour on both sides.
It´s not about which side is more mature, but whom you play with.
There´s enough jerks on both sides, the trick is to avoid them and stick with the people you like and who have a similar approach to the game as yourself.
As long as you do that you´ll be happy and enjoy the game either as horde or alliance.

Posted by: volc on April 2, 2008 12:47 AM

I must say, i've found this all terribly interesting.

I must stress, however, that i wish i had "rolled a Horde" for my main. I get so fed up of them beating us at Battlegrounds because of my own teams (usually consisting of Night Elf hunters)idiocy and complete lack of tactical skill. Usually things i hear from our team in BG are things like "OMG gte the falg u nubs" or "back1 to bsae! dey getin falg!", whilst the Horde team use tactics and strategies to win. However, i find that whilst doing an instance with a group of people, i find them all to be very mature, and this one time we saw a group of Horde near the Deadmines (a Tauren, two Trolls and an Orc), they greeted us all, and me and my party were just standing there, speechless. We were quite surprised by this politeness.

Another thing i have often found is that the Alliance do not stick to the rules of RP servers as often as the Horde. I have a Horde alt, and i happily speak engage in Trollish conversations with other players. The contrast is amazing.

A final note, to people who consider 12-13 year olds to be "immature", i'll have you know i'm 13, and i am strongly against any belief that we are immature.

Eleyt-RP server (The Shat'ar)-Paladin

Posted by: Matt on April 2, 2008 4:04 AM

Have to agree on horde being more mature.

after playing on alliance side for almost 3 years i decided to make a new char on a new server (rp)
and must say,wished i did that 3 years earlier

Posted by: Stirge on April 2, 2008 3:07 PM

i cant believe ur all saying this its like a battle of maturity or summat or summat haha you all need to chill out abit i play this game on horde innit. u all need to get out abit more ;)

Posted by: Jim on April 2, 2008 5:51 PM

I have noticed that the alliance or self centered, They wont help out noobs, They wont work as a team, In bg's they run around like idiots and get ownde in the face

I remeber when i saw over 50 horde coming for goldshire and i went SW yelled "HORDE ATTACK IN GOLDSHIRE HELP!!!" I get 50 comments saying "OMG NEWB NO ONE CAREZ" or "HANDLE IT YOUR SELF"

so i went hordewe own kill pillage and roll to see who can eat the gnome we hunted across azeroth...Wooo good times, good times

Posted by: jd stratt on April 6, 2008 7:05 PM

sorry for mispells iam typing in the dark

Posted by: jd stratt on April 6, 2008 7:07 PM

Its all an illusion... Alliance and Horde players are balanced equally. Each side has its mean people, nice people, polite people, rude people, team players, and solo players. I don't understand all the prejudice, just go have fun!

Posted by: namraw on April 6, 2008 8:41 PM

I agree that on a whole Alliance and Horde are very similar, but not exactly the same.

I find it hard to believe that the amount of Females playing Horde is the same as Alliance, hearing from multiple people and just how you would expect them to choose leans quite strongly towards females preferring alliance.

I have a good female friend that joined the game, months after I joined, they are a person that takes online friendship importantly, and yet because i was Horde on a PvP server they refused to join Horde. They said they couldn't play horde because they are ugly and would rather play another server as alliance than play with a good friend as Horde.

Also from what I have seen the age will be similar but I am under the impression that Alliance has more younger players AND more older players (who focus more on fun) Whereas Horde have more Players in between (around 20) this would also lead to the idea that the Horde are more Mature at the same time more focused on competition and success.

Thats the way I see it anyway, in short.

Posted by: Eidion on April 7, 2008 7:29 AM

This is a very interesting thread. i am 16 in RL I just recently started WoW, and started as an Undead (now lvl 12) , simply because i thought they were cool. As i found out the lore and the history behind the Undead, you have to admit it makes for an interesting, and sad story. They arent "evil" they were killed by the plaugue. Is it their fault for that? No, in my opinion the most evil of races is DEFINETLY anything Alliance. Since i started i have been Ganked several times by Alliance Pallys, and it pisses me off. (I play on Ravenholdt server) and they are the most obnoxious people ever. I cant wait till im at a high enough level and can launch some huge Raids on some Alliance City. I have found the Horde characters to be very helpful and polite, though the Barrens chatroom is definetly the worst for the Horde areas from what i have seen so far. (yo momma jokes anyone? =P ) The Horde is very well organized, from what i have seen, especially in defence of the bigger cities. I look forward to creating a Tauren sometime soon.

Posted by: Livor (Nick) on April 19, 2008 10:15 PM

Me again. Just thought i would reply to Livor above me. The Undead most certainly ARE evil. They hate everyone. The rest of the Horde despises them. And the Undead have only joined the Horde to further their own goals.

Posted by: Matt (again) on April 20, 2008 6:21 PM

Who do u think is more evil just a question allience or horde? i think horde just look at their races and also they were created by the Burning Legion but thats just me, dont get me wrong horde can be pretty cool but just for the sake of conversation who do u think is Evil?

Posted by: Eromacys on April 26, 2008 1:42 PM

Personally I chose to go to the Horde after playing alliance toons for 3 years to see just how good (or bad) Horde pvp really is. Rogues are my class of choice. I love the type of toon that doesnt need help to get out of sticky situations (ie., stealth and vanish). The rogue lifestyle fits my playstyle. I dont want anyone or anything to know I am there. I choose which fight I want to engage in. As most in here have said, it is about playstyle that suits your personality.

Posted by: Stabilicious on May 12, 2008 5:56 PM

I LOVE how its 90 percent horde posts saying how much better they are.

i also like how the trolls expansionist and violent history is totally glossed over. whatever flaws humans have the trolls are 5 times worse. on top of that yeah the night elves fucked up, but hmmm, guess who was ultimately to blame for the demons? oh thats right the high/blood elves. for the horde indeed.

Posted by: jake on May 22, 2008 6:31 AM

Hey jake, guess what race CAUSED the Burning Crusade that has caused countless worlds and lives to be destroyed. O wait the Eradar/Draenei, 2/3 of them sided with Sargeras rather than an elite sect. So yeah Draenei are as much fault as the Horde, kudos Alliance.

Posted by: Skelun on May 26, 2008 12:47 PM

Lol im 12 (IRL)... And i play Horde its come to my attention that you all have it wrong... Age has nothing to do with maturity and alot of Horde is like 13-23 yr olds most of the older (adults) Play Alliance and the little ones 10- play some sort of Gnome and give him some stupid pink hair that looks stupid and a dumb beard/mustache. I myself play horde a level 62 Blood Elf Hunter (and leveling) ... And wow the Alliance is just terrible! I mean when i was leveling in STV (PvP server btw) I was camped for a long time. Id help Ally then theyd call a 70?! Thats lame as hell... Alliance tend to be Ass's they will sit around at Nesingwary's Expedition and wait for Horde to come... And it takes so long to get a 70 to come and bam Ally cry in General and in Guild and get MORE 70's and the fact you say Horde are blood thirsty savage's is insulting we dont go waiting at spots to camp lowbies... They have to wait to kill noobies and laugh and spit on your corpse but yet they are too scared to enter BG's!? Thats bullcrap and theres absolutly no point in entering lower lvl BG's for Ally its twinkville... Im not an RP'er but if your into that stuff id say go Horde... Ally just sit around at Goldshire talking and crap... I played an Ally til lvl 24 and got bored of QQ help me ive been camping a horde for hours and now hes got a 70 to help him lvl from Ally and i need 50 lvl 70's to help kill him plzz help x_x. Its sad really i came across this site out of boredom and now people talk down to Horde!?! Cmon.... I may be 12 But i sure as hell am not gonna get picked on by my age... Ally will make fun of you cos your young but really i bet most of those Ally are prolly 8 yr. olds or 14 yr. old that think they are so awesome. So please people get your freakin facts straight before you go start saying stuff about the Horde being bad and gankers! And STV isnt the ONLY place they gank. But definetly one of the popular Ally ganking countries... Ive been attacked right outside of Gadgetzan for no reason what-so-ever this stupid level 70 Nelf Rogue G.I.R.L (Guy In Real Life) Comes and kills me and laughs at me?!Thats some B.S. I know theres gankage but jeez...give the horde a break from ganking.. So i go to Feralas to level... BAM more freakin Nelfs they are so annyoing they think they are sweet when really they are just some teen-aged boy playing a girl toon cause he cant get some IRL... And really in the Lore... Ally is the evil faction they hold too many grudges.. You can tell Ally is sad when it takes a Horde like 17 days to get to 60... I have noticed Dwarves are nice and so are Dreanei... Gnomes will usually tend to themselves also.. But the rest are assholes.

Posted by: Ugh on May 30, 2008 6:52 PM

hmm, with all this talk who`s "fault it is the burning crusade" started,
lets dig a bit deeper :3

Skelun, you say its the Draenei`s fault it started, because they didnt side with the good guys, but with Sagaras?
you do realise it was 1 orc at first being tricked,
then corrupted...
because it was an orc in an important possition, he could create followers, then destroy the draenei..

after that, even more corruption followed, and it went downhill for the Eradar`s races...

also, the Night Elves where corrupted by demons,
so they could open a portal for Sagaras.
later, it would sepperate, and the elves would split up into night elves and high elves,
who would also split up into night elves and blood elves.
thats another story tough.

in the end, nobody was really evil,
just corupted and twisted to fit the will of the demons.

Posted by: Filecreator on June 10, 2008 1:30 AM

Nice try Filecreator, but yeah Nerzhul fell to Kil'Jaeden's lie, yet was the one who defied him, the one who told Durotan and his mate not to drink the blood. And you do realize you overlooked the countless lives/worlds ruined by the Draenei's race,by changing the subject. Stop playing the corrupt card like Blizzard for Christ sake.

And in the Caverns of Time, when aiding Medivh the Dragons(the smart intelligent bronzes) say it's a necessary choice. If the orcs never came through then the humans,dwarves, and elves would destroy/fight amongst themselves and the Alliance would never be made the Legion would've destroyed the world for sure.

Posted by: Skelun on June 10, 2008 11:35 AM

well, i must say i never really took a deep look into the draenei lore, so i dont know about that.

and true that, if the orcs never came to be the "main enemy", the races of the alliance would battle eachother, but thats another story.
mostly the story called greed...

great reply ^^

Posted by: Filecreator on June 11, 2008 3:22 AM

*This statement is based purely on my experiences as a level 54 gnome warrior, 70 human mage, 70 undead mage and a 48 troll hunter.*

I have encountered a massively greater number of "stupid" players on Alliance than I have on Horde.
By this I mean hunters with +str/spell dmg etc gems, gear and enchants, warlocks who put DoTs on CC marked targets, tanks who can't tank, and generally people that think they know everything when they are quite obviously wrong (i.e. a NE druid who was convinced that you got bonus honor for returning the flag yourself, and constantly abused me for returning "his" kill and stealing his honor).

This doesn't mean all Alliance are retarded. But I think more of them are, and that's my opinion based purely on the observations of over 2 years of play.

Posted by: Elmo on June 12, 2008 6:07 PM

Honestly (well on my server) the lil kids and most of the so called 'retards' if sayed like that :) are on the alliance and unfortunately we horde only populate 20% of our server and yet we still win in all of our BG's and PvP related objectives but i suppose it's all different on other servers your 'statistics' can be over ruled or proven perfectly depending on the server! ty for reading this :)*note* yes i am horde and have been playing for a little over a year and i actually chose Alliance the first i played and got sick of all the 11 and 12 yr olds that didnt know how too play (and that was only at lvl 16!!) i switched to horde and rolled a rogue and now im perfectly happy. ;D (Server:Zangarmarsh)

Posted by: Grym on June 15, 2008 9:23 PM

In all honesty, it's not the 12 year olds I would be worried about; it's the 35 year olds who can't grasp they key concepts of the game, or learn with an open mind. Once again this IS a generalisation (there are plenty of good 35 year olds and bad 12 year olds), but I find that alot of older players can be unaware of how the game works, and get quite abusive when you attempt to "educate" them (politely) on how things work; for example, my little brother who is 14 (he was 13 at the time) played in a guild run by a 35-40 year old guy and his wife, who both played hunters. When my brother tried to explain that hunters shouldn't gem for strength or spell dmg/crit, he got annoyed and told him he didn't need to get advice from lowbie noobs. The irony was that it was actually my advice, and I have a 70 mage on another server.

Posted by: Elmo on June 19, 2008 2:52 PM

Funny, I did a search through half the threads on the word "Horde". Read through and look at how many players say, "Horde rules!" or "Alliance sucks!" I didn't find a lot of posts going the other way, but true, I didn't do a conclusive search. So what does this say about Horde mentality? They sure are quick to point out they are superior. However, there probably are some people saying the other way here. There are aholes everywhere.

I am a female, age 38, and I play with my two teen sons and my husband. We are all alliance and we are all team players. I don't find Alliance overwhelmingly filled with immature dummies, regardless of age. There are some, but there are plenty of very nice mature players willing to shelter and cultivate newer players. One of the nicest people on my friends list is a 12-yr-old boy who plays a female pally. He saved my butt when I was trying to solo as a holy (soon after switched to shadow...ah the leveling power!) Now we chat and help each other out and he is friends with my sons.

I am always being helped and coached by fellow players on a PVE server. I will never forgot going to train enchanting and being given 20 gold by a complete stranger--which I have now done for several other players as well (and I always tell them to pay it forward someday).

However, I have noticed in the BGs that many of the horde I play against are very rude and disrespectful. Lots of "so and so rolls on the floor laughing at you" when I die. Is it really that fun for a warrior and three rogues to kill one priest? Maybe, I guess. But is it fun when I take note of your name, seek you out, and SWP, Mind Blast,& mind flay you to death? I digress....

Now, PVE I have had horde help me kill mobs when I'm outnumbered and I have also returned the favor. I have danced with Horde on the tram. I gave some poor blood elf pally some help just last night. How long does it take a pally to level anyway? That poor bastard (my level) was killing one mob to my three. It was painful. But I've also had horde come and steal my quest item as I fought the mob. I NEVER do that.

I can't judge horde completely fairly having not played them, but I haven't had the experience with ally that a lot of you claim, and I am a very mature player. That the horde may be more physically gifted at the game I do not doubt. Younger people these days are much more adept at video games. They are raised in them. My 15 year old is a sponsored Halo player though, and he's going to prove a nice little gem for the alliance. :)


Posted by: Karmuh on July 5, 2008 12:31 PM

Hello Karmuh your post almost made me feel sorry for being pro Horde. But suffice to say it's all one sided Iam afraid. And like in life and writing essays, personal experiences do not amount to much compared to facts,trends, and history

"There are some", some is used in a relative term and underestimates there are more than "some". As for stealing your quest item, that's abit different from killing a quest npc. Quest item just sit there for anyone to take really, and there's always more of it than just an npc. You may never had stole or done anything like that but remember you're the minority in your faction.

And there's the problem you said, "Younger people these days are much more adept at video games". They are, yet lose touch with manners, how to interact with people and etiquette
. They see WoW as a world to screw around in, while it's not bad but they take it beyond the line.

Another thing about judging, a good number of people from both alliance and horde view the Blood Elves as skinny and girly compared to the other races. Yet real life majority don't have figures to show off, most don't even bench haha. They're skinny themselves yet think of themselves as awesome.

Posted by: Skelun on July 7, 2008 10:30 AM

I don't get why people assume that the horde are the bad guys and alliance are the good guys. If you read the lore and know what happened you will see that the horde(Thrall's horde) are far from being bad guys. If it weren't for Thrall the Alliance and Horde would have not joined together to defeat the Legion. I play horde and will always play horde but both factions are honorable. If the horde haters read the lore their opinion about the horde would change a lot.

Posted by: Nickagua on July 10, 2008 10:57 AM

Look no1 is evil end of discussion say anything about which one is evil and i bet i can counter it

Posted by: on July 13, 2008 12:35 PM

I personally like both horde and alliance but prefer the alliance as there places are less bleak and dull except with the blood elves, whilst paying the orcs I find that I feel like some nomad even though it is totally the opposite. In the alliance I havea sense of purpose and honour dude to there place.

Posted by: lil' dude on July 14, 2008 5:31 AM

ok i am for the horde cuz i beleave the ally have to much ignorant rude unhelping players. I once asked a human rogue were i could get this 1 potion and he told me to shut he fuck up and go piss so... although horde are very nice and helping


Posted by: DONOTCAREhe on July 15, 2008 9:22 AM

RL: 25M
WOW: LVL 13 Human Pally!!!

Ive been playing WOW for around a week, it was hard for me to choose between the horde and alliance as all of my mates roll alliance.

So i chose alliance, a human pally. After reading this thread and playing im agree that the alliance is up its own arse and WILL be folling with the horde as an Orc Hunter from now on.


Posted by: Twynkkle on July 30, 2008 7:01 AM

I looked at your motivations framework and it has three categories: Achievement, Socialization and Immersion. Your chart only has subcomponents from Achievement and Immersion though. What happened to Socialization?

Posted by: paynterc on August 8, 2008 12:03 PM

payntec: Only the statistically significant differences were listed.

Posted by: Nick Yee on August 8, 2008 1:47 PM

Yesh its Difficult, Ive got a 70 NE Rogue Female lol. And a 63 Troll Shaman, one on a Pve Realm one on a PVP Real, The Alliance are generally a bunch of 8 Year olds that havnt had there Juice Box at lunch and wanna go "Smash Some Horde" And they always die in the end, so the LEave for a few days. The Horde are generally more Adult, and them 8 year olds must fit in cause i havnt heard . Ever. HORDE OR ALLI WHAT EVER YOU ROLE YOU STILL PLAY WOW SO, *thumbs up!*

Posted by: HAzzardous on September 1, 2008 4:32 AM

I personally prefer the alliance and tried both the horde and alliance and found the allaince much better to play.I love the night elves and the atmosphere that surrounds them. Also it is not true that alliance lose all the time to horde in warsong gulch I find it's evenly matched, the allies won 3-0 in 5mins 4 times in a row

Posted by: abcxyz on September 23, 2008 8:13 AM

Good god at the post which made my scroll bar very tiny, it's just a game. And I never played this game. Make love, not warcraft. I'm staying away from this game.

Posted by: --- on September 24, 2008 9:05 PM

You can't base your opinion of people off whether they play Horde or Alliance. WE all need to remember that we're dealing with individual people. Sure some people may be annoying or immature but thats why you can ignore or, if necessary, report for behavior. I've played both Alliance and Horde. PvE, PvP, RP and the like and have found that each server holds it's own wealth of personality. And if you play on Wildhammer look me up on Doomr or Doomd.

Posted by: Doomer on September 26, 2008 12:31 AM

17 Male

Level 70 NE Rogue, Level 70 NE Hunter

I found it funny how everyone say "Horde is way more mature then the alliance." Only thing i see here is "ALLIANCE SUCKS!!!" "HAHA ally suck in bg's!!!."

I love the alliance, when i started my account, i thought to myself.. Horde or alliance. I did not like the races of the horde like Orcs.. and Cows.. and Trolls. So i thought of picking someone normal people pick as a Night elf/Human.

I love the Alliance, (No i'm not going to say Horde sucks.) Power to WoW.

Posted by: Andaris on October 1, 2008 5:03 PM

you thought of picking something normal like human or a nelf?
what about blood elves, and there are so many humans it's nto even funny. -original- is the way to go :)

Posted by: on October 4, 2008 8:20 PM

From my experience on the Horde(basically my entire gameplay experience), the Horde are definately more competitive and goal-driven. The only Battleground we didn't win 90% of the time on my old server was Alterac Valley, but I'm not going to go into a rant about that.

The age difference doesn't do itself justice. Anyone entering the Alliance trade channel will immediately think it's a kindergartner's party. The Horde side can be rowdy at times, but not with such frequency.

I've known some cool allies though, so don't get me wrong. It just seems that the middle-school kids are more prominant.

Anyways, cheers!
Tyrannath, level 70 Blood Elf Paladin, Lightninghoof

Posted by: Chris on October 15, 2008 6:49 AM

Undead hating all races, well gee you ever wonder why? They are an abomination, everything they ever loved is either dead or undead. And makes matter worse they've got zealots in red right next to them killing them on sight. And the world viewing them as disgusting abomination to some pathetic Light concept. Not all the forsaken hate the Horde, Sylvanas is loyal, and they don't hate the Blood elves. Haha darkspear trolls the cruelest race? How about them Pit Lords, Dread lords, or Draenei's lovely cousins the eradar.

Posted by: squirrelmunch on November 16, 2008 2:05 PM

I believe this is what a study should be about. It was stated above that there is very little difference between the two sides, yet we treat each other like real life enemies. It just goes to show how combative the human race is. Take away our ability to communicate, give us a weapon and we instantly think the other side sucks and try to kill them.


The Horde does plenty of honorless ganking on my server

Posted by: Guy Noir on November 23, 2008 12:47 AM


Posted by: HannahJoJo on December 11, 2008 11:44 AM

Haha, itd be funnier joke if it didn't come from a little girl name hannahjojo montana.

Posted by: Squirrelmunch on December 11, 2008 1:21 PM

24 Female

74 NE druid
70 human priest

I picked ally because the female characters are more attractive. It seems that most people believe that females play male characters, so this may be atypical of me.

In my opinion ally are more inclined to be solo players whereas horde are more social and tend to group together. I think this is why horde are more skilled at BGs than ally, because it is common practice for them to communicate with each other; they understand each other's strengths and weaknesses and adjust accordingly.
This is just what I have observed, I'm not certain if it's true.

I enjoy questing by myself and exploring new areas, but I've been considering creating a horde character. I'm terrible at pvp and more inclined to run away than stand and fight. It's something that I would like to improve on and I think I could best accomplish that with a horde character.

Anarye - Frostmane

Posted by: Anarye on December 16, 2008 8:51 PM

Wow, some of us are treating each other as if we were mortal enemies, but come on it really doesn't matter which side you picked, I just flipped a quarter and went with the horde

Posted by: James on January 2, 2009 7:35 AM

I do witness on my ally alt that the bg PUG's tend to be in anarchy with some players dissing each other and the only mature players being ignored when they come up with a plan.

On the other hand, the horde tends to listen to each other to formulate a plan, and 75% of the time follow through with the plan.

I don't know about everyone else, but that is my experience with the sides in pvp

Posted by: Algoth on January 2, 2009 7:42 AM

Bah the Alliance itself isn't so bad, citizens are okay just the leaders like Wrynn and Fandral are crappy and stupid. Vice versa for the Horde, people(citizens) sorta grittier while having good leaders.

Posted by: on January 5, 2009 4:53 PM

lol at Horde players playing the "good guys" and "honorable" in PvP. What a load of horse maneur

I play a PvP server because my husband rolled PvP and I followed, unaware of the horror it entailed. I rolled Human female because I wanted the chance to *be* in another word. My reason for picking that race was 100% driven by my desire to PvP. Think "The Never Ending Story" (the book, btw).

Anyway, I've had horde players gank me all the time. Not only gank, but also camp. I've noticed Orcs and BE are the absolute worse, with Trolls. It is very common for me to be in the middle of a fight, have a BE wave at me "hey w're friends," and then Kill me. I've been betrayed more times from an Orc or a BE than I can count on both hands - twice. (That's forty. lol)

Tauren are generally nice. And when they're not nice, they won't gank.

That being said, my entire guild left the first chance they got for a free PvE server. I will be following them soon after. Gee...could it be because the Horde are filled with jerks and immature gankers too? Perish the thought!

And one thing that constantly turns me off from the Horde is just how snide those who play them can be.
"Look at me. I'm so creative for picking a Troll. You're stupid and not very open minded for picking a Human. Why did you pick that? They're boring. Are you shallow?"

Good for you. Do you want a cookie? Do you want to be patted on the back, "Well, that's swell son. You picked the green guy or the blue guy instead of the pink guy or the purple guy. I guess you get extra points for creativity there."

No, there is absolutely no chance that one plays Alliance because one genuinely loves the races (Dwarves, Humans, Draenei, Gnome. Not very keen on NE OR BEs...or elves in general). Or the Cities (I love the European look of SW, find Ironforge very neat with its giant forge, Exodar is beautiful, and so is ah...that NE place. XD).

But whatever. We'll just call the Draenei evil because of what they're relatives are doing, and never mind that the Orcs won't give the ones who have turned good a chance. Never mind that the Draenei fight their evil "cousins" all the time when they're not trying to reform them. But the Orcs (and by extension the Horde) Just hate them and call them evil. Hrm. Remind you of anyone?

You mean the Orcs can be as unfair and prejudice as the Humans? Again. Perish the thought.
How about this, there is no real good guy in this game. The only ones to really hate are the BL. Everything else, including all the bickering between the alliance and horde is just a distraction. But this rant is long enough. Sorry about that.

Nina- 70 Mage - Dark Iron

Posted by: nienna on January 9, 2009 8:16 PM

lol at Horde players playing the "good guys" and "honorable" in PvP. What a load of horse maneur

I play a PvP server because my husband rolled PvP and I followed, unaware of the horror it entailed. I rolled Human female because I wanted the chance to *be* in another word. My reason for picking that race was 100% driven by my desire to PvP. Think "The Never Ending Story" (the book, btw).

Anyway, I've had horde players gank me all the time. Not only gank, but also camp. I've noticed Orcs and BE are the absolute worse, with Trolls. It is very common for me to be in the middle of a fight, have a BE wave at me "hey w're friends," and then Kill me. I've been betrayed more times from an Orc or a BE than I can count on both hands - twice. (That's forty. lol)

Tauren are generally nice. And when they're not nice, they won't gank.

That being said, my entire guild left the first chance they got for a free PvE server. I will be following them soon after. Gee...could it be because the Horde are filled with jerks and immature gankers too? Perish the thought!

And one thing that constantly turns me off from the Horde is just how snide those who play them can be.
"Look at me. I'm so creative for picking a Troll. You're stupid and not very open minded for picking a Human. Why did you pick that? They're boring. Are you shallow?"

Good for you. Do you want a cookie? Do you want to be patted on the back, "Well, that's swell son. You picked the green guy or the blue guy instead of the pink guy or the purple guy. I guess you get extra points for creativity there."

No, there is absolutely no chance that one plays Alliance because one genuinely loves the races (Dwarves, Humans, Draenei, Gnome. Not very keen on NE OR BEs...or elves in general). Or the Cities (I love the European look of SW, find Ironforge very neat with its giant forge, Exodar is beautiful, and so is ah...that NE place. XD).

But whatever. We'll just call the Draenei evil because of what they're relatives are doing, and never mind that the Orcs won't give the ones who have turned good a chance. Never mind that the Draenei fight their evil "cousins" all the time when they're not trying to reform them. But the Orcs (and by extension the Horde) Just hate them and call them evil. Hrm. Remind you of anyone?

You mean the Orcs can be as unfair and prejudice as the Humans? Again. Perish the thought.
How about this, there is no real good guy in this game. The only ones to really hate are the BL. Everything else, including all the bickering between the alliance and horde is just a distraction. But this rant is long enough. Sorry about that.

Nina- 70 Mage - Dark Iron

Posted by: on January 9, 2009 8:17 PM

sorry for double post and spelling errors. Computers and rants will do that. Also, RP instead of PvP. My reason for picking Human was 100% driven by Role Playing. I wanted to BE in another world and experience that world. That's another type of RP, kinda like an escapist immersion instead of playing dress up/pretend. Although my character has become something all together not me since then. ;)

Posted by: nienna on January 9, 2009 8:21 PM

I would just like to say that Horde is a fun side to play becuase ppl think they are the "evil" side, but we are equal . We also arent the ones who put up the " yo u L oser" type of things when we win or lose, whats up with that ?

Posted by: Metalmorphus on January 10, 2009 8:10 AM

Nina, the Draenei have caused more deaths than you and I will ever know. They're cowardliness and pathetic strategy have cost the lives of hundreds if not thousands of world. Each world it's like this "Alright finally HOME!" *settling*...."O $%#@ Legion found us, let's leave AND screw this place it's going to be on fire!" Gee wonder how many people died because of that? O it's all good we got wind chimes lol and cool ship.

Giving a chance? Hah good luck, because your dbz king varian decides lol attack thrall and start war in a middle of another war.
Alliance is weak, even in arguments.

Posted by: Squirrelmunch on January 12, 2009 4:30 PM

ok squirrelmunch lol, for one i dont have the patients to read ALL of what is said, so im just going to ASSUME you are saying alliance is evil...becuz of the draenei. How are the draenei evil if they FLED for sargares power? he is unarguebly the BAD GUY and if the draenei were evil they would have joined him... being stupid and making dumb mistakes and then being evil are completely different. (now if i am talking about NOTHING you were talking about thats fine i misunderstood so dont freak out and be offended)

Posted by: Eromacys on January 18, 2009 8:35 AM

Doing nothing but running is hardly heroic. Especially if you're going to do it for 25,000 years. Knowing that the Legion will destroy everything leaving nothing but ashes. Honestly think, you believe Sargeras and Kil'Jaeden would leave the worlds Draenei have been on untouched? The legion has destroyed countless worlds, evils exist more ways than one. Killing is one, running while others taste the Deceiver's and Destroyers wrath, and giving into old hatreds to name a few. And I am just clarifying it for you.

Posted by: Squirrelmunch on January 19, 2009 10:52 AM

Another thing, Varian your dragon ball z wanna be thrall copy is a joke. Heh an emo, acting all uppity. Glory to the Horde. Blood and Thunder.

Posted by: Squirrelmunch on February 3, 2009 5:41 PM

i have been playing for a short time and i started off with a blood elf pally(in fizzcrank) as i went alone in my server at least the ally are completely unorganized. In AV i have never lost a match and till this day the horde have never lost when i was in there.
i tried using a human mage at first (i was a noob asking questions) and everytime i asked something they would ignore me or some stupid thing like that i believe that there is no difference but in the same time there is(it just depends on what server and who you meet) but i will always stay with the horde for now on
FOR THE HORDE!! just sounds better too :D

Posted by: Persue on March 11, 2009 10:23 AM

I think were all missing somethings very important to ppl which has been over looked.

1.Alliance has the human and nightelf, which are the best armor models
2.You all talk about about how horde has more honor and yet, alliance fought off the horde, the scourge, and undead and they still have the two largest citys in the game (ironforge>Stormwind)
3.Another thing is that ppl would rather spend hours somewhere in a city with actuall stone buildings and golden banners, than somewhere where everybuilding is made from crap that was found and somehow put into buildings.

Alliance and thier story are far better
Thats why i joined alliance (not for the players)

Posted by: Mysterious X on March 17, 2009 8:40 AM

I think were all missing somethings very important to ppl which has been over looked.

1.Alliance has the human and nightelf, which are the best armor models
2.You all talk about about how horde has more honor and yet, alliance fought off the horde, the scourge, and undead and they still have the two largest citys in the game (ironforge>Stormwind)
3.Another thing is that ppl would rather spend hours somewhere in a city with actuall stone buildings and golden banners, than somewhere where everybuilding is made from crap that was found and somehow put into buildings.

Alliance and thier story are far better
Thats why i joined alliance (not for the players)

Posted by: Mysterious X on March 17, 2009 8:40 AM

Let me say that alliance has tanks, horde has tanks also, well as long as you consider a bunch of plywood nailed to gether loosely and weels glued on. but then again its not the alliance has anything better, just a huge golden and white steel tank with a massive cannon on top and a steel lions head on the front. but if u ignore that they are the same :)

Posted by: RElint on March 17, 2009 3:51 PM

I'll say that when i first started playing i chose the alliance hands down simply because i thought they looked cooler. Once i started playing with them i really thought i was probably not going to ever change my mind and i wanted death to the horde. After a while of playing i started to do the battlegrounds and what not. I noticed that the horde were pretty much and simply, kicking our alliance butts. So then i started to look into the horde...i did'nt really expect to find anything great but i did it just for the heck of it. I found that the players there were freaking awesome and didn't ignore you like they did on the alliance. Also, i saw that the horde weren't just a bunch of level 80 humans and elves just sitting in stormwind all day. Plus i started feeling a lot more like a hero early on, for instance, there is a battle in the barrens between the centaur and the horde and you actually get to fight along side your fellow grunts as if you were a hero in an actual battle or something! I found that the shaman class was a very fun class to play and now that i've seen both sides i honestly wound't turn back to the alliance...but that's just me...

Posted by: papa smurf on March 19, 2009 7:19 PM

I'll say that honetly they are both cool in their own way. I enjoy being a little gnome and also a huge tauren although both ahve disadvantages..from a raiding and pvp perspective i think horde racials are more benificial, tauren have 5 percent more health to tank with, undead have WOTF and so on... although alliance will always be able to compete in AV. As far as people playing goes once you get past level 40 or so the players ages tend to mild out. Yes a level 9 night elf named legolas is probably a 10 year old but then again so is a blood elf named legolas,..the common misconception is ally are younger then horde but in reality its low level players are younger. They do not have time, patiencte to play this game to 80 and the mental capacity to raid, high end pvp. Alliance will always be my number one for when i want to RP or get more "into the game". running instances with a buncha humans is more entertaining since its realistic kinda..but on the other hand you might die more with ally so overall..choose horde...80 undead mage, 59 tauren warrior 50, orc hunter, 55 human paladin, 40 gnome warlock, 48 troll rogue, 24 orc shaman, 29 twink tauren druid, 19 twink gnome rogue

Posted by: useofaweapon on March 22, 2009 7:33 PM

look the horde is better
hands down alot more people in this rather play the horde we are better
"blood and thunder"
FOR THE HORDE!!!!!!!!!!!
and plus what does the ally have?
at least 2/3 are either humans or night elfs anyway if u make anyother toon you get left out of everything
and both the horde and ally are "good"
there isnt good or evil when it comes to horde and ally
most people dont realize that so when you say that the ally are the good side YOUR WRONG and if u ask a hardcore horde member they will say that they are good they just two civilzations fighting aginst eachother to survive thats thats
FOR THE HORDE!! sounds better anyway :D

Posted by: persue on March 24, 2009 9:04 AM

Lets Take into account for a moment the general topic:
Which is better horde or alliance

Then lets see what you people have been arguing the entire time:
Who has better players

This isnt about who has better players its about which side is generally better. Lets for a moment remove everyplayer from the game. then lets make 11 million of the same person character etc. Now which is better? Neither. you people have been missing the point from the beginning .

When wow was Created (as every mmo) everything is equall in its own way to everything else, albiet a few nerfs here and there but the empies are entirely equal. Instead of arguing who has older or younger players the true awnser to "alliance Vs Horde which is better" you need to do two thing:

1.PLAY THE WARCRAFT GAMES BESIDES WOW!!!!!im sorry but you really have no idea what youre talking about unless youve played those.

2. Pay attention to the backstory (while playing warcraft series)

then youll decide which is better for YOU, nothing is the best for everyone making it a trivial conversation.

Posted by: ekkeek on March 24, 2009 12:11 PM

If were going all out backstory, Alliance is only part of what it used to be. especially with the fall of stratholme. Then again Alliance did manage to fend off the scourge and horde.

But seriously previous poster was right guys, play the F*****g series or dont bother posting on this stuff.

Posted by: epic3 on March 24, 2009 12:18 PM

adding to that, it doesnt matter what lvl you are, you dont know ANYTHING about backstory unless youve played the series. Besides WTF do you thing WORLD of WARCRAFT was based off of? diablo?

Posted by: epic3 on March 24, 2009 12:20 PM

you are taking this way to seriously
look epic its a game everyone has there own thing that they like more
you come in and say that it was "trivial" then why add at all dont act like your better then everyone else.
"Blood and thunder"

Posted by: perseue on March 26, 2009 8:38 AM

Firstly I wasnt the one who called it trivial go flam ekeek or whatever.
Secondly im not saying im better than aynthone what im saying is dont post about backstory unless youve played the games, its like if you go to a Harry Potter convention, never read the books, and only saw the movies. Sure you have an idea of what going on but you dont know the full story or all the details. so before you go flaming people try to get ur facts straight, then come back and flame. Thank You

Posted by: epic3 on March 26, 2009 12:28 PM

I think its kinda sad you guys are getting so angry over a 4 year old post. but whatever floats your boat man

Posted by: ekkeek on March 27, 2009 8:58 AM

i found this quite interesting to read it has so many ideas and thoughts into it so entertaining to read peoples thoughts on the horde or the alliance,the age differences,the mentality and so on i personally roll horde seeking diversity besides having alot of hatred towards the alliance the server my characters reside on is Ysondre(pvp) greatest server ever and i would say to you people saying that horde travels in packs we dont swing that way on ysondre we are organized but we dont need back up to take out any alliance equal lvl i myself play a dk and a warrior both tauren because tauren rule period

the alliance on this server are assholes so naturally we respond in the same manner just in a more polite manner we do gank for fun hey you cant tell me you never have the urge to downright slaughter a alli and being the asshole i am i hang out in alli areas provoking fights i like to see people bring their 80s or call 80s to try to kick my ass other day i was horsing around in westfall just standing in the center or sentinel hill and a pricky ass human rogue calls nonething more then a rogue of the gnomish persuasion lvl 75 i was on my dk thats a lvl 72 i walked away the rogue stealthed to "try" to kill me being the kindhearted asshole i am i dismounted chained him and killed him mounted up and left

Posted by: balsac on March 27, 2009 2:04 PM

This was a fun read. I play on a PVP server, only because my friend does and I leveled a Troll holy priest. Leveling holy is slow and makes getting ganked frustrating because if someone gets the jump on you, you just dont have the dps to bring them down. I have been ganked many times but for every 10 times im ganked there is one time that an ally will pull a mob off me or help with an elite. Ive also watched many a horde rogue gank and been grilled after he was pwnd about why i didnt throw him any heals. Im bitter about all the gankings, but anyone with half a brain knows better than to group all horde/alliance under one specific trait. I'll still never roll alliance though. FOR THE HORDE!

Posted by: Sir Nicholas on March 28, 2009 5:34 PM

This was a fun read. I play on a PVP server, only because my friend does and I leveled a Troll holy priest. Leveling holy is slow and makes getting ganked frustrating because if someone gets the jump on you, you just dont have the dps to bring them down. I have been ganked many times but for every 10 times im ganked there is one time that an ally will pull a mob off me or help with an elite. Ive also watched many a horde rogue gank and been grilled after he was pwnd about why i didnt throw him any heals. Im bitter about all the gankings, but anyone with half a brain knows better than to group all horde/alliance under one specific trait. I'll still never roll alliance though. FOR THE HORDE!

Posted by: Sir Nicholas on March 28, 2009 5:34 PM

epic 3 your a joke
you were acting as if you were better then everyone else with you whole fact that you know that back stories and act like no one else does don't assume we don't you it could make you seem like an ass.
"blood and thunder"

Posted by: perseue on March 30, 2009 8:58 AM

and it would take an ally acting like a jerk on a high chair to try and make us (the horde) act like one back epic 3

Posted by: perseue on March 30, 2009 9:00 AM

ekkeek is also on his high chair too
go back to ur noob ally toon and play just making fun of the lowbies that will leave the ally and join the horde and own u

Posted by: perseue on March 30, 2009 9:06 AM

Epic3 you must be joking. Alliance fending off the scourge and the Horde? Lol you clearly haven't played warcraft 3. Alliance got raped by the Scourge. Losing Lordaeron and basically the northern part of Azeroth, golden boy arthas now the Lich King. Dalaran now neutral lol. Hahaha fending off?! Even in WoW scourge still dominate the landscape, and the Horde has the Capital City via Forskaen. Fending off the Horde? Lol 30+years ago when Gul'dan pulled half of the standing forces in the 2nd war yeah you fended then.

Posted by: Squirrelmunch on April 3, 2009 9:15 AM

I have been playing Ally for 9 months have 3 Ally toons. I joined the Ally when i started becuase 8 RL friends were Ally. After playing 6 months and finding out all 6/8 friends have a horde toon also i decied to give them a try. All I have to say is I deleted 3/4 Ally toons and have 3 horde also now. My reasons are BG, and Raids along with the general Politeness of the horde being way better and more orginized/willing to help one another. Granted i can only speak for my server (zangermarsh) but thats my thoughts and I love this thread.

RL 28/M

Posted by: Genx on May 7, 2009 1:11 PM

I dont like the horde. I grew up playing dnd and as a result I view the horde as the bad guys. The races (minotaurs, undead, orcs and trolls) are all evil in dnd. So Im biased. I acknowledge the horde people are better players (and have probably played longer than alliance). But the game isnt my life. Its played for enjoyment, not slaughter, which seems to be the average horde players goal in life.

Posted by: Dave 4568 on May 17, 2009 1:54 PM

"I think you what you meant to say is...

Language is everything. Particularly when interpreting statistical data :) "

I had to laugh at this post!

After reading my preview...

I had to laugh again!

Posted by: Krim on May 28, 2009 12:31 PM

i think ally rule horde suck even tho im 11 i like ally not horde jsut saying

Posted by: nobody on June 2, 2009 12:28 PM

Alliance rule and hord arnt that bad I only like blood elfs. All the friends I got on my ally player are 20+ not 8

Posted by: Dablaster on June 14, 2009 11:23 AM

In reference to the posting about Horde being "bad guys". After playing Frozen Throne (The Storyline Predecessor to WoW), I can say with absolute certainty that Azeroth's villains are primarily members of the Alliance races.
The vanity of humans (Arthas) and the ego of the paladin orders leads to the rise of the Scourge.
The Blood Elves are only members of the Horde because of the racism and general atmosphere of disregard that the humans have for the Silvermoon elves. The dwarves and gnomes are little more than the Humans' pets until WoW's storyline expands on their personalities enough to make them more than white-skinned goblins.
As for the Horde, Thrall's story is one of resisting oppressive humans who had enslaved him, and his honorable quest to find a home for his exiled people. During this quest, he encounters the tribal, yet noble Tauren who become his most important ally while establishing his home.
I could go on...but basically, it is clear from the lore of the game that the Alliance is intended to be depicted as corrupted and driven by selfish, bloodthirsty goals. Even the long-lost king of Stormwind comes back from his amnesia-assisted drifting with a desire to purge the horde (especially orcs) from Azeroth.
So I submit to you that any notion that the Horde are "bad guys" can be quelled quickly with pointing out the facts of their start in the game:

Humans: Their would-be king killed his father, betrayed his men and left his old dwarf friend for dead in the frozen wastes of Northrend just before trading sanity for power and taking up the mantle of the Lich King. They're hateful, self-righteous people in general (do the mission where lakeshire calls out to every human leader on the continent for help and see what you think)

Dwarves: Stereotypical for their race in the fantasy genre, Dwarves remain hateful and distrusting of most races. When the dwarves are not being used as comic relief ("I'm your shooter"), they're being used in the "Human Sidekick" role. Ironforge does little on its own, and arguably, the coolest dwarf character in the story was miraculously stripped of his memories, and basically disappears after getting them back. Other notable dwarves include - various drunken characters throughout the game. the King of Ironforge who interacts with PCs less than the boy king of stormwind did pre-Wrath, and of course, a prevalent enemy to be slain in Searing Gorge, Grizzly Hills, etc..
Gnomes: Yes, they're cute...but they are designed to be chronic failures. Their "self-imposed" exile is the result of their king's decision to intentionally flood the city with lethal, mutating radiation. Not exactly the choice Noble Thrall would have made...Lastly, when you do quest chains for gnomes, two things typically happen: 1- their excuses for their uselessness get more annoying than silly, and 2-they get more violent. Crafty Wobblesprocket at Fizzcrank goes from trying to get her stuff back from Snobolds, to stealing clothes from dead horde in order to frame them for murder...
Dranei: They're the only real "good" guys in the alliance. The only thing that puts them in the same league as the alliance is the fact that their intolerance ranks right up there with the humans, especially when it comes to things they perceive to be evil, and the Blood Elves had been torturing one of their precious N'aru to steal its holy powers. Therefore, it made sense for them to side against the elves.
Night Elves: More so in the game's predecessor, but still existent in WoW, the Night Elves are by far the worst of the Xenophobic races. They seem to all have one-track minds to the point where it becomes a serious personality fault. This kind of obsessions is typically a trait possessed by antagonists in literature. A couple of people were so dead set on defeating Archimonde that they chose to give up EVERY night elf's imortality...awfully selfish.

So you could argue that the alliance is the "good" guys, these arguments show a history of "evil" actions and personalities working within these races to commit evils for whatever the reason may be.

Look at the horde. The only reason they can be considered "evil" is their tendency to use force to maintain order and the fact that their races are typically associated with evil behavior.

Orcs: in WoW, the orcs are an enslaved people...first enslaved by demonic corruption, then by humans. The history indicates that the orcs were not an "evil" race prior to the invasion of Azeroth. Actually, the Dranei people were good friends of theirs until the legion corrupted them.

Tauren: Shamanistic, tribal, and territorial, sure...but Evil, I think not. I would equate them to Earth's Native Americans during the days of America's initial expansion toward the Pacific. They are savage in combat, but as a general rule, their cultural and spiritual beliefs do not permit them to be "evil". Cairn Bloodhoof's character is not even remotely depicted in an evil sense.

Troll: Similar to my opinion, these are the sole exception to the statement that the horde are not evil. Their spiritual beliefs and cultural practices involve things that are an afront to basic decency even for the Orcs! Their history is mired with their betrayals of other races and other heinous acts. The trolls are very much "evil" on the norm.

Foresaken: While sadistic, to say the least...I find it hard to call this race evil, and here is why: The majority of these 'people' who were plagued and became minions of the scourge...when Arthas's grip was loosed on them, they went back to the Inn to serve drinks...or to the stables to tend to the (undead) horses. I can tell you this much...If I were "evil" and suddenly realized that I was an immortal corpse, cursed to walk the earth forever rotting away...I'd probably take a ton of the living down with me just for kicks. While some members of this race are doing just that is apparently not the norm.

Blood Elves: Also not evil. These are the same elves that saved the humans from utter annihilation in several wars. When they cried out for help...the racist humans refused them and allowed the scourge to desecrate their source of life. They're junkies (which was a stupid concept...but whatever, Blizz) who just got their stash cut off by "the man" because, let's face it: without the Sunwell, the alliance with the elves no longer seemed tactically advantageous...they were powerless (or so they thought). Their "evil" is reactionary and circumstantial in my opinion. Much like freedom fighters trying to take back their homeland from a dictator. A school or two might bite it with a couple hundred kids inside, but it's collateral damage when the dust settles.

So...Bad guys? I don't think so. Come to think of it...there are more alliance races represented as "evil leaders" at the ends of dungeons than there are horde races.

Posted by: Ramxius on June 24, 2009 5:56 AM

This is my experience: 80 Orc Warlock, 74 Orc Warrior, and 8 other Horde alts on Thaurissan. Rolled a Human Death Knight to check out the Alliance experience of the game on Saurfang and got him to 70. Have 9 other Ally alts. I rolled the Death Knight to take care of my Dwarf Warrior who is now level 18. This is what I have noticed as the difference:

Ally priests and paladins don't seem to buff other Allies very often. If you buff them, they rarely acknowledge it. Horde buff each other randomly way more often. They also acknowledge help more. This is basic decency which I will call maturity unrelated to a player's age.

I have met and teamed with 2 "civil" Ally players the whole time I leveled from 58-70 on the Human DK. Ally seem a little more needy asking for help with things Horde don't ask for help with.

Also, it happens way more often that Allies will invite you to a guild out of the blue without asking you first. Just boom - like that. This seems like a young kid to me.

The two Allies I thought were "civil" seemed a bit incompetent, not in the way of kids but of middle-aged people. They were slow. They didn't know how stuff worked even though they were already in their 60s (level). I'm 43 (age), by the way.

As a result of actually playing Alliance, my stereotype is more of middle-aged people or school teachers or postal employees, or someone like Milton Waddams from the movie "Office Space." I also saw the RL Leeroy Jenkins and he was very clean-cut, so someone like him or an Air Force cadet, etc., would roll Ally to be superficially squeaky clean good guys without having to actually be decent. If you think about Leeroy Jenkins and his raid group...I don't know, watch the video on youtube if you haven't seen it already.

I have been ninja-ed several times by fellow Allies and I can't remember it happening when I was playing Horde, so I think it's rare, although it probably has in leveling from 1-80. For example, if you are fighting a bunch of monsters (mobs) to get to a quest objective (QO) kill, several times another Ally has swooped right in and killed the QO. In 80% of my experiences on the Horde characters, we will group for that QO kill, then leave party or stay together for awhile depending on the situation to save the other player from the minor inconvenience of waiting for the respawn in RL and the injustice of clearing out all the mobs and having the quest objective stolen from right under your nose. I find the Horde players to be far more decent (after Barrens chat).

Also, trade chat in Orgrimmar (on my current server) is about trade mostly (70-80%) whereas in Stormwind (on Saurfang), it is 50-60% about trade and the rest is vile name calling (faggot this, faggot that, etc.). I also entered Stormwind on my Horde characters and found the same sort of differences, because you can see the other factions Trade Chat when you go into their cities.

This, I think, depends on the server. For example, the Horde side on Dethecus can be foul and racist in the wee hours. It doesn't mean all or most players subscribe to those views. I understand that. But it is about what that community tolerates. It is the general mood of the server. So, for me, it is about my experience of Dethecus-Horde, Thaurissan-Horde, Sauerfang-Alliance.

Just based on those types of experiences, Horde is better for me. Players are more cooperative in 2009. I see this thread started years ago and that hasn't changed.

Regarding quality of play in the battle grounds...I don't know. Sometimes we go on streaks and win a lot, and sometimes we can't buy a win. Close games are to be treasured. I hate it when 5 Allies jump you and you kill 2 of them and the remaining ones laugh over your corpse. That is weak. I know I would have taken them out 1 on 1. I don't know if Horde does that. I have not experienced it. Whoever does that, it's weak.

I rolled Alliance because I really started to hate Alliance. So I rolled Alliance to get over it. Actually, after playing with Allies, I hate them more (not in RL). Now I really love to defeat them in BGs and I hate to lose, more than ever, because I know how they treat each other on their servers.

The final difference is this: "Zug Zug" is so much cooler than "Have a nice day."

There are some Allies I respect and some Horde I hate, too. And I remember a time I was leveling my 80 lock when he was only in his 30s. I got mobbed by a bunch of trolls in Stanglethorn Vale and this 70 human warlock shows up. I thought all my efforts were in vain and I was about to go down. The Warlock started casting a shadow bolt...I thought it was for me, but she cleared out all the mobs and saved my toon. It was decent. So I know there are decent Allies out there. Cheers to you. I know there are Horde corpse campers and they are dishonorable. But that's like life, isn't it?

I know...I's just a game. But I also know that I have learned a lot about people and about life from playing this game.

Thanks for an awesome thread. I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Keep it going!

Posted by: Sigil on June 25, 2009 4:11 AM

I rolled a gnome loc for several reasons:
Firstly because they're vastly underrepresented and I also like playing as an underdog;
Secondly because I love the comic justoposition of a midget going up against the evil big-people of the world;
Lastly because there was no way I was gonna play a human loc. Humans are so boring.

In retrospect I could have chosen a horde race but I've always had a particularly large, pointy bone to pick with the overtly sexist artistic direction blizzard chose to take with the horde.

Some may recall that in the beta version of wow the female orcs, tauren and trolls looked distinctively more alike the male equivalents. Though due to criticism (by whom I don't know) they changed them to be more steretypically feminine.

Posted by: Jamie on September 12, 2009 1:38 AM

IMO horde>alliance...
I have a lvl 80 tauren druid and 80 orc hunter. I 1st started the game as an orc shaman because i enjoy being able to fill alot of rolls. I made it to lvl 7 and quit for a while. My cousin, who started playing at the same time as me had an orc lock. When i quit playing he continued.. Eventually he got me to give it another shot. This time i went for the orc hunter because shammy wasnt doing it for me. Months later I hit lvl 70 and 2 days after WOTLK came out.. "Great 10more lvls to go,"I thought.. I ended up hitting 71 and just wasnt having fun.. I decided to create a tauren druid. Within weeks I got the druid to 80 and hunter soon after.. At 80, I basicly stopped playing the hunter because while it is fun to top dps/damage meters by face rolling, I didnt find it challenging. I then began doing some serious pvp on my druid and even creating a spec that gives me everything I want in a toon(feral/resto hybrid.) Then i thought to myself, "if i like melee combat and self healing, why not make a paladin?" One small problem, BEs are embarissingly gay and I could play a female toon but it just wouldnt allow me to get into the game as much. So, I made the leap! I created a dwarf paladin and a recruit a friend account with a dwarf priest.. I duel boxed them up to 60 by running instances. All the while i found that it was easier for me to 2 man instances being 2 or 3 lvls higher than the mobs than it would be for me to inv fail dps. Nearly every dps I ever had in my group while alliance has failed me. Not only did I put out more damage than them(as a tank?!?), I also had problems with them pulling extra mobs, using taunts, attacking the wrong targets, not to mention they cut down on the profit I would be getting from loot. When I hit 60 on my paladin, I stoped using the priest to 2man and started just playing the pally(since i didnt wanna pay for BC on the RAF account.) Running ramps, bf, and sp was no easy task. It was much more difficult to find people to join than it had been on my horde toons. In addition, most alliance healers lacked skill and forced me to pull mobs one at a time rather than 3+ at a time like i did with my priest. At this point my paladin is lvl 64 and im am thinking about switching it to horde. Most recently I ran sp with 2 66dks, a 68hunter, and a 65 holadin. I was top dps as the 64 tank... Maybe I just was unlucky with the players that I met as an alliance player, maybe I just got a taste of what was to come at lvl 80. All I know is, the alliance players I've met on my journey all lacked skill, knowledge of their class, and really an sense of how to play the game.
If you want to have acheivement based success and learn from people that know what they're doing join horde.
If you want to sit in a boring euro style city watching a lvl 14 gnome mage strip for copper join the alliance.

Posted by: goudz23 on September 29, 2009 4:38 PM

I guess its worth mentioning, I'm 20 year old male.

Posted by: goudz23 on September 29, 2009 5:05 PM

I started off alliance, Not really knowing or caring really. Did a Nelf Warrior. It was fun for a while but on a pvp server I got ganked a little to much in ashenvale, So I decided to roll a horde Belf Rogue. It was pretty good, But really I have not seen a difference in sides as in attitudes. I think now it is becoming more along the lines of you may find a good group or meet the right person, or you may not. The line is not so cut and dry these days. And I think with the new expansion coming out. the horde and Alliance may have to start working together, To fight this new coming evil that is going to change the world in more ways than we may even know. I guess time will only tell.

By the way I am 30 years old. Find me on Velen anytime on the horde! I also run lowbies through earlier dungeons to help them out, and ask nothing in return. Because I wish people would have done things like that for me. The tradition has to start somewhere. I prefer lowbies to newbies anyway cause a lowbie may have a high level character alt. Anyway with that

For The HORDE!!!!!!! for now....
Saratonin 72 Belf - DK
Endorphin 55 Belf - Rogue

Posted by: Saratonin on October 11, 2009 5:09 PM

Well I started playing as horde a few years ago. Everyone I asked for help where rude, the guilds I joined even ruder, the members wouldnt even help me out when I needed help. so I decided to start playing Alliance and I have never gone back to horde. and I find that the Alliance is way more mature then horde (there are some imatures but way less) I play as a Draenei now... one thing left to say


Posted by: Marc-andré on November 2, 2009 4:41 PM

can someone help me,when i first got WoW last month i started playing a bloodelf mage and got to lvl 14. Then my friend with 10 lvl 80s did a faction change and said that if i wanted his help to go to alliance, because Horde are mean and cuss people out and stuff so i quit. now that i read this im not sure which side to stay on can someone help me please. thanks.
Burning legion

Posted by: lattia on November 7, 2009 5:23 AM

dude the only reason i gank people is for vengence i play both horde and alliance and not to brag but i consider ym self good at pvp and im not a twink on my lower lvls i just have skill
but when i was a low lvl and an 80 would come up be cool then kill me?
no no no then i eventually got pissed hit my hunter to 80 and moved on to the horde to see if it was diff
then i realised alliance are assholes too!
so i hit my war to 80 and started fucking up people
soo yea idk if you hate noth sides just play both and kill both its helped out my WoW rage

Posted by: Tyler on December 1, 2009 6:52 PM

dude the only reason i gank people is for vengence i play both horde and alliance and not to brag but i consider ym self good at pvp and im not a twink on my lower lvls i just have skill
but when i was a low lvl and an 80 would come up be cool then kill me?
no no no then i eventually got pissed hit my hunter to 80 and moved on to the horde to see if it was diff
then i realised alliance are assholes too!
so i hit my war to 80 and started fucking up people
soo yea idk if you hate noth sides just play both and kill both its helped out my WoW rage

Posted by: Tyler on December 1, 2009 6:52 PM

I am sick and tired of hearing that Allies are full of children. I choose alliance for the simple fact that,

1) I don't want to have green eyes. (Blood elf)
2) I don't want to have my entire body. (Undead)
3) I'm not a Cow. (Tauren)
4) I'm not green. (Orc)
5) I'm not a bus crash survivor ( Troll)

I think that the main reason i rolled alliance is watching some immature children gank my friends quest givers in Sential hill when i was at his house. I don't see too much allies doing it to horde, (Roleplaying factor). And while this was happening my mum walked in and she got scared
And said 'You're movin' with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air'

I begged and pleaded with her day after day
But she packed my suitcase and send me on my way
She gave me a kiss and then she gave me my ticket.
I put my walkman on and said, 'I might as well kick it'.

First class, yo this is bad
Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass.
Is this what the people of Bel-Air Living like?
Hmmmmm this might be alright.

But wait I hear there're prissy, bourgeois and all that
Is this the type of place that they should send this cool cat?
I don't think so
I'll see when I get there
I hope they're prepared for the prince of Bel-Air

Well, the plane landed and when I came out
There was a dude who looked like a cop standing there with my name out
I ain't trying to get arrested yet
I just got here
I sprang with the quickness like lightning, disappeared

I whistled for a cab and when it came near
The license plate said fresh and it had dice in the mirror
If anything I can say that this cab was rare
But I thought 'Nah forget it' - 'Yo homes to Bel Air'

I pulled up to the house about 7 or 8
And I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later'
I looked at my kingdom
I was finally there
To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air

Posted by: Ryan on January 16, 2010 8:08 PM

First of all I would just like to thank everyone for your views it has been very entertaining.

Personally I like alliance purely cause I dislike the look of the horde chars, the only one I like is the undead but I find the starting area very dull.

from what it seems both sides are just as bad as eachother.
I am on the saurfang server I have had my corpse ganked and laughed at and spat on by horde and equally i've seen alliance do the same.
For my server after a certian lvl the alliance become terrible at battle grounds and its true we dont work together, I'm lucky as I play online with my fiance so we help eachother out and try help others out also.

I am the guild leader of my guild (Order of the Charmin Fox) we have a few younger members but they can also put some of the older members to shame. we are all about working together and enjoying the game, and surely thats what it should be about.

I know the history about WOW and have played the warcraft series the story is so good to read, its not about whos good or bad its what you enjoy and most importantly what class you like.

When I first started the game my fiance wanted to roll horde and I wanted alliance straight away as I loved the idea of a druid and didn't want to look like a cow, so with me being the female I got my way :P I have really enjoyed playing alliance and don't get me wrong the ignore button can be my best friend and my fiance just doesn't have general and trade chat showing not just because of annoying people but he just generally doesn't want crap showing on his screen.
We did try playing horde made a bad choice and tried the blood elf, I felt like an Emo! the only reason we tried it is I was quiet interested in the storyline but I was fed up of my char sounding like a bratty teen and looking like an emo! lol

Anyway I am getting distracted now, end of the day neither is better neither is evil or good they are both netural, its how you play your char and what kind of person you are determines if your one of the assholes who laughs after killing someone, ganking corpses and killing quest npcs or if your the nice person who waves at the other fraction helps them out when they look like they need it, just remember what you do to a newer member can make them believe that is the norm for the game, personally I would rather them be nicer.


Posted by: Lerona on January 19, 2010 2:08 AM

I've rolled both Alliance and Horde (Durotan server for this post). First I rolled horde because I liked the diversity in races more, but I found many of the players to be complete jerks who only cared about my equips and how long I've played.

I had trouble getting into ANY parties because when people would ask what my "alts" were, I wouldn't have an answer above 20-30. What did I get? "Oh nvm i didnt kno u were noob" (or other variances of just being called a "noob") and was then booted. I decided to then start lying about it and giving them names from my sister's ex's account (level 80s). I was kept in these parties (because all they seem to care about are your alts, when you're making simple low-level groups in the barrens), and in the end, I was pretty much doing everything by myself anyway. I had never seen such lazy people in an MMORPG in my life.

Now, I did come across some decent parties, don't get my wrong, but most of those were dead silent as well. While that was okay, it was generally boring. I ended up having to pretty much solo everything as it was too much trouble to find a decent group or guild even.

BUT, after all of that, I know that I just came across an awful lot of bad players. No biggy, really, it happens in EVERY MMORPG.

I ended up rolling alliance of the same server just out of boredom. Now, not knowing much about any of the alliance areas, I got dangerously close to the Deadmines as a lowbie. Another player (around level 50) asked if she wanted herself and one of her guildies to help me through it. I was intrigued so I obliged. They ran my through Deadmines a couple of times where I leveled and later on through Stocks, without ever asking for anything. I was later asked if I wanted to join their guild, and I did. The guild is mostly consisted of age 20-upper 40 year old players, and was very warm to me.

When I got to the point where I was helpful in a run, they didn't get mad the few times that I accidentally screwed up my tanking, they just laughed and we tried again.

Now, I don't know about other servers, but I've never had a problem with Alliance on Durotan, and I constantly see people offering free runs through instances, and I've been known to give plenty of free runs through Stocks.

Occasionally you'll get the immature jerk who spams general or is spamming yells in a town, but I've never really had any major problems with any Allies. HOWEVER, they are there, just as they are anywhere else.

That said, I still prefer the Horde races and plan on trying Horde once again, but maybe in Frostwolf this time.

The point of this wasn't to point out that "ALLIANCE RULES AND HORDE IS TEH SUX", because I think the whole Alliance/Horde pride thing is idiotic, and I'll leave others to spout off that nonsense. Just because you've had a few bad run-ins with with side, doesn't mean that the entire population is that way. Yes, I know, it's hard to grasp, but that's just the way it is.

And I might also point out that it's silly to think that certain aged players gravitate to a certain side as well, as you have no way of getting an accurate account of the age of even a chunk of the players that play. It seems silly to assume that either side is full of 10-13 year olds when they both are.

Here I thought it wasn't difficult to stop generalizing and think to outside of the box, but perhaps that's just me.


Posted by: Kugetsu on February 25, 2010 11:10 AM

I just started playing WOW and I went strait for the alliance because I didn't want to be a stooped bulkey horde but after playing the alliance for a while I got bored of them because I couldn't choose which class/race to be. I kept going back and forwards between the horde and ally because I couldn't stick with ether one. I have read this whole thread and I am still undisided. I like ally for being noble and the races not looking to ugly but I disslike them because the races I like can't be the classes I like. And I like the horde because of their history but I don't like them because only the turen and belfs look good. I have being playing WOW for two months and I have had at least 25 lvl 18 chars but still can't decide can some one please help me.
PS I'm only 12 but I am realy nice on the ally and have helped countless peeps out.
RL 12 male- WOW Elemantal could be ether horde or ally at anytime on Khaz-garoth

Posted by: Elemantal on May 16, 2010 9:02 PM

I have played so many different characters on alliance and horde. I have a lot of ally chars on "Icecrown" but Im bored of alliance I really wannted to try out Horde....So I decided to ask people if they knew any good Horde servers and people told me to try "Thrall" so I tried it out Last Saturday and decided not to roll a DK as my first character but rather a pally. Right now Ive met 3 different people so far and each invited me to their guilds and idk which one to go too but anyways I find Horde nicer people at least on "Thrall". I still am not completly satisfied and I am confused on which side to choose from....Ive worked so hard on Alliance but I really dont enjoy the game....Im looking for a good guild and nice people. Hope I can get satisifed eventually :p

Posted by: Allen on May 17, 2010 7:54 AM

It completely depends on the server and the individuals residing there. It's way too general to say the horde or alliance as a whole are more mature, skillful, friendly, etc...

Posted by: One on May 22, 2010 1:24 PM

Well Im a 15 year old male and from personal experience I have notice that both sides are filled with this kids under 13... I started playing when I was 12 and I started out as a horde undead rogue. I thought it was cool to play with a more mature environment, but in fact I found out that I was not the only one who thought that. It turns out both sides have just about the same amount of little kids on them. I play as an alliance human warlock at this moment. And Im not going to lie the alliance faction has more loses than wins from my bg, but I wanted to leave the Horde because they get way too competitive that it takes away from the games fun. And Im finding that my gaming experience is a lot more better with the alliance than the Horde

Posted by: Feltraz on June 8, 2010 7:35 PM

I play both alliance and horde and the horde players. The Horde tends to be way more rude. I think that it comes from the nature of the way they look. It tends to attract A-holes. Almost every battle the Horde players are fighting amongst themselves. 16 year old kids saying the alliance players are too young, stupid, how much the horde rules blah blah... Several times Horde players would try to tell other horde players below a certain level to quit and not to queue in for battle because they suck! and would still fight amongst themselves. I switched to alliance because it's way more laid back.

Posted by: jim on June 28, 2010 10:31 PM

Jim.....the reason players were telling othersunder a certain level to quit the BG was because you are a liability to the team if you are under the 6's (i.e. 16/26/36 and so on.

I now that you can que and enter but really do you try to fight mindless NPC's 9 levels higher than you?, so what makes you think you have a chance against a player controlled toon 6 levels huger than you?

Posted by: Desires on July 20, 2010 12:53 PM

I think its funny that they described Horde as "achievement-driven" and Alliance as Role players, haha,

I fit they're description of Horde but I'm Alliance for the most part... odd

Posted by: Brian on July 25, 2010 7:57 PM

What's that saying about arguing on the internet and the special olympics?

Posted by: Can't we all just...ah, screw it.... on August 4, 2010 1:35 AM

Wow this post has been going on and on for a very long time lol, anyway my view is that the alliance and horde are very balanced in terms of immature ad mature players but I know that this feud will never end but on my realm the alliance is way better than horde however the horde wins in pvp. Also I see every horde going FOR THE HORDE!! Every bloody minute while the alliance just gets a raid and kills the lich king easily hence why I am alliance all the way.

LvL80 warlock / male 24

Posted by: Thatguy on August 5, 2010 6:42 AM

Wow. I've read about half way down this page before the urge to reply just became to great. In my short time playing (approx. three months) I've spent all my time playing alliance on a PVP server. I won't make any sweeping judgments about the horde because I have no right to, but I will say a few things about the horde players I've encountered in my travels, and the alliance players I've shared my travels with.

Alliance goes first because I have more experience with it. Every alliance player I've ever encountered or worked with has been extremely kind and willing to help out a fellow ally. I've had people stop everything to run me through a dungeon for a quest, and I've done the same for others. I've even stopped what I'm doing to help people I've never talked to before. The only time I've ever had to deal with chat speak is in instances when someone has to get something out really fast and doesn't have time to type out everything. (And we all know this happens in the heat of an instance! :D) Most of the alliance people I've met are quite mature, even when they admit to being young. I'm actually fairly young myself, 18, and I've never had anyone accuse me of being immature. In my experience, alliance players are very focused on helping others rather than cutting others down to help themselves. I hear my brother complain all the time about being taken advantage of or being scammed, but it's never happened to me, and I've definitely been in the position to be scammed before. (Note: my brother plays horde on a normal server.) I've also never run into an alliance player who's fond of ganking people. The general view is that we don't have time for that foolishness and if we need honor we'll go do a battleground. It seems to me, though, that horde players have nothing better to do than gank people. As an experiment once I allowed myself to be ganked for however long it took that darned blood elf mage to get tired of camping me. One hour and twenty one minutes. Yup. I'm sure he/she thought I was a complete idiot for allowing myself to be ganked that long, and I'm sure he/she is quite happy with the honor points he/she got off of me, but it's quite eye opening isn't it? Nearly an hour and a half of that person's life gone because they couldn't find anything better to do with their time. It's sad in a way. It's also sad that I took the time to do that little experiment, but I don't intend to make a habit of it, I'm almost positive that the blood elf habitually ganks people. Also, as a rule, I don't attack horde players that are more than one level below me. It's just no fun to fight someone weaker than you. Most of my alliance comrades agree, but I can't even begin to count the times I've been completely, to borrow my brother's term, "rofl stomped" by a level 78-80 horde player. I know, at level 75, that I can't possibly be a fun target for them.

Anyway, on to what I've notice about the very few (three) horde players I know. These three people consist of: my younger brother (17 year old, blood elf, death knight), my brother's friend (16 year old, blood elf, paladin), and my older sister (19 year old, blood elf, rogue). My brother chose to play for the horde because of the Warcraft lore. He's been playing WoW for years, but he played all the Warcraft games before that. His friend and my sister, however, chose to play horde for aesthetic reasons. Let's face it, no matter which faction you favor, we all have to admit that blood elves are the most beautiful race in the game. My sister doesn't play enough for me to make any judgments on her game goals, but I can say with absolutely no hesitation that my brother and his friend are completely self-serving in the game. I can recall a time just last week when my brother (a tank) entered a dungeon and took the group up to the first boss then left them because the first boss gave him what he needed. Both my brother and his friend select "need" on every drop they're allowed to simply because it makes them money. It angers me that they don't play fair in that respect. I also know that they take some sort of twisted pleasure in camping out in alliance starter zones and harassing low level players. It just doesn't seem right or honorable. I know that Warcraft lore makes the humans the less honorable race, but currently, in my experience, I feel like the horde is less honorable.

Anyway, those are just my observations. Feel free to disagree if you will. Happy playing and I hope to meet you in the battlegrounds! For the alliance!

Posted by: Thia on August 15, 2010 12:20 AM

Does your survey show what a bunch of cowardly
murderous sociopaths the horde are? they gank and camp and run away like cockroaches when faced with any opposition. they prefer to play evil monsters
because that is what they are. The rancor and
bitter hatred i feel for them is well earned.
May they burn in the everlasting pit of fire.

Posted by: on October 7, 2010 1:51 AM

I 100% agree with Thia, It is hillarious to see a forum debate on whether or not the Horde is evil, and Horde players are all like "we're not evil, we're zomg misunderstood!" ... right.
Just look at their composition "Orcs, Trolls, Undead, Goblins, demonic energy addicted elves that call themselves "Blood Elves", and what would otherwise be called Minotaurs... all of these in practically any other fantasy game or setting would be things you kill, not get to play as a player character. Not to mention if you look on a player name search engine, you'll find that level 80 players that have names like "Hate, Evil, Anger, Rage, Slayer" 65-75% of those people are Horde!

Posted by: wowcat on October 11, 2010 10:08 PM

It's interesting to me how many people claim this data to be incorrect based on their own personal experiences. Which is exactly the kind of thing that this project is supposed to stop. Also, I'm not clear how people can characterize humans by the race they play in a game. Horde players are evil? Evil? Is that really where we're going to go with this? I have RL friends who play both factions, some exclusively one or the other. Somehow, though it may shock some, we still got along perfectly well. I suppose there may be some personality draw based on lore or character design, but there's more to an MMO than those things. Maybe keeping in mind that each person is completely different than the next would help some people in their lives? Because that kind of generalization in real life is called racism, or ageism, or sexism. Just in case some of you weren't aware

Posted by: LordSyruss on November 17, 2010 11:24 PM

I so agree with the fact that Alliance members tend to be older and more machure than the players of the Horde

Posted by: Josh on November 27, 2010 6:48 PM

Pre-4.03a, Leveling 1-60 with Horde was torture because the lore usually wasn't as good to keep you interested. Even the instances were terrible. Wailing Caverns the predominantly Horde instance was designed poorly so that you had to run back and forth, and each run took exceptionally long. I remember deleting my level 35 orc warlock because I had enough of Barrens.

Now after 4.03a the 'fun factor' is starting to become more balanced since the really fun quests will be available to both factions like the wagon ones in EPL. Have to say I still prefer Alliance for pure aesthetic values like city design and such. Stormwind is awesome now.

Posted by: on December 8, 2010 3:22 AM

theres something that i noticed
all the girl druids are feral
all the girl rogues are assassination
all the girl warriors are fury
all the girl warlocks are demonology
all the girl shamans are enhancement
all the girl death knights are unholy
there is no girl mages
all the girl priests are shadow
all the girl paladins are retribution
all the girl hunters of course are beast mastery
hmmmmmm thatsssssss odd
girls only dps cause they're stupid
all the girl gamers think they're special
and when they win 1 little duel they say HAHA YOU GOT PWNED BY A GIRL

Posted by: on February 5, 2011 8:20 AM

Wow this has been goin on forever, anyways horde rule! Tee hee!

Posted by: Tyloe on February 21, 2011 9:39 PM

My A/H balance is about 10 percent alliance, 90 percent horde.

The 10 percent is my Worgen Druid, Kaldricke, on the Muradin server US. The 90 percent is all my non RP characters, mostly on Darrowmere US. (Main: 64 Belf hunter named Tyloron, alt: 9 Goblin Mage named Safetydance)

Anyway, here's my breakdown on the races' lore.

Humans: Oppressive and zealous. I mean, their priests and paladins and whatnot really drive me around the bend. And their monarchistic society really annoys me. Varian Wrynn is so full of himself, erecting statues of himself in the city.

Dwarves: Drunk and disorderly. Also, they have no cares whatsoever for the environment. They're like "Lalala...I'm taking a stroll...Ooh! Sparkly! Maybe there's a lost city under there! -digdigdigdigdigdig- Oh, rats. 15 feet down, 30 feet across. Not bad for 5 minutes' work."

Night Elves: I respect their love of nature, but if so, how'd they join forces with the dwarven lunkheads? And I also think that they're kinda cowardly. They hide in the shadows. Roguish much? And they caused the Maelstrom.

Gnomes: See goblins.

Draenei: As mentioned before, 2/3 of their species destroyed Outland, Argus and countless other planets. Yeah, that's something to be proud of, innit? And again, they're quite zealous.

Worgen: I don't have much to say about them, except that they were pretty much forced into the alliance, so no ranting for these poor unlucky saps.

Orcs: It's not their fault they genocided a bazillion humans. It was the demons' fault. Now that they're back to uncorruption, stop killing them!!

Undead: These guys are really the only actual malevolent race on the Horde, and even then, they're not that bad. They're zombies, and the only thing they can do is get back at the overzealous humans for trying to genocide them. And again, not their fault.

Tauren: They were oppressed by the centaur and quilboar, and the orcs RESCUED THEM FROM EXTINCTION. So, it's only fitting they'd join Thrall.

Trolls: Basically the same story as the Tauren, except with murlocs instead of centaur and quilboar.

Blood Elves: Attacked by trolls, corrupted by fel magic, betrayed by the Alliance, betrayed by their prince, and the only remaining source of aid is the Horde, as they haven't attempted to drive them to extinction.

Goblins: This next part applies to gnomes too: [Techno wizards, industrializing everything!]

Goblin exclusive: They were attacked by the Alliance, because they wanted to take out the Horde ship with "no witnesses" Uhh...can you say "sketchy"?!?!

Goodbye, and FOR THE HORDE!


Posted by: Josh on February 22, 2011 6:51 PM

Well I think the Horde is better for the warrior and the paladin classes but the alliance is better for the overall spellcasters and the reason for this is because if u read the World of Warcraft magazine it shows you there stats and frankly all of the horde tend to have higher stamina and strength then the alliance but the alliance tends to have higher spirit and there mana pool is increased and also there agility which is good for rouges. I normally choose alliance because I like spellcasters but If I had to make a melee fighter i would choose either a orc warrior or a tauren pally/warrior but this is simply my oppinion and information based on the magazine.

Posted by: NF on August 30, 2011 10:13 AM

is this measuring N= alliance vs n= female?

Posted by: jj on October 17, 2011 3:25 PM

No. It's a typo. It should be N=Alliance vs N=Horde.

Posted by: Nick Yee on October 17, 2011 3:36 PM

I'm amused by the fact that player types match the in-game racial stereotypes so well. Orcs and trolls are often considered much more aggressive than gnomes and elves.

Posted by: Lawrence DuBois on October 27, 2011 11:01 AM


Posted by: on December 4, 2011 7:35 PM


Ally SUCKS!!!

Posted by: on December 4, 2011 7:38 PM

most of people especially kids start off as alliance coz they think the alli is the good side and horde is the bad 1(which is not). but i wuld go for the horde cuz they are more older and more mature

Posted by: allisux on December 4, 2011 7:41 PM

yes it is true that 10 year olds play as alliance and horde players are much more mature than alliance and much more skilled. Just because in warcraft lore night elfs are best and bet burning legion, it doesnt mean hordes are evil cuz of their face. actually alliance is the evil ones. human kill tons of orcs, betrayed blood elfs when they got assisted by nagas and just look at goblin cinematic that aliance shot them for no reason and i was pissed off. look at the differnece between horde and alliance history. horde did nothing wrong. troll got beaten by murloc and got help from orc like tauren did, goblin got smashed by deathwing and they need allies and horde was there as well as blood elves. look people at the difference between them. HORDE IS NOT EVIL JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR FACE!!!

i started as ally too cuz i loved worgen and nelfs cuz in warcraft lore but it turns out alliance is loser at bg. then i decided to start playing as horde they were much more mature skilled than alliance as well as friendly

and alliance sucks

Posted by: Alliancesucks on December 5, 2011 2:58 PM


Posted by: BemReugsusent on January 2, 2012 6:45 AM
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